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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Crossover advice
Crossover advice
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Old 5th August 2018, 08:02 PM   #1
hubi is offline hubi  Poland
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Lightbulb Crossover advice

Hi,

I have custom speakers with morel mdt33 - tweeter and eton 5-880 25 Hex mid/bass.

Frequency Response:
mdt33: 1800 - 20000 Hz
5-880/25 Hex: 50-4000 Hz

Click the image to open in full size.
Lately Iím trying to build my own crossover, because Iím not satisfied with the current. Iíve never done something like that before, so I started learning by myself.
Iíve watched videos and read tutorials that explains how to do that.
So this is the result, I would be happy to hear what you think.
Click the image to open in full size.
Did I make it right?
Attached Images
File Type: png crossover.png (328.9 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2714.jpg (304.3 KB, 209 views)
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Old 5th August 2018, 08:42 PM   #2
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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I see you are on moderator approval, so the first 5 posts take a while...

But welcome to the forum.

I think it's good to find a similar project and try and replicate it:
Vifa PL14WJ-

What you are doing so far is impedance correction and maybe online calculator values for L and C on the bass. That doesn't include bafflestep, so the speakers will sound bass light. Phase looks a bit strange. Usually a 5" has acoustic centre about 30mm back, a 1" tweeter about 15mm back. Simulators need to know this.

It can be done with some skill:
Seas ER18RNX with 27TDFC

A 5" bass is usually crossed above 3kHz, because its dispersion is good up to that point.

The masterpiece of 5" bass is the BBC LS3/5A. Many good ideas in that one. Fairly adaptable to a lot of 5" basses. the parallel LCR on the bass is a very useful notch around 1kHz.

I should mention that to convert a single woofer circuit to twin parallel, you halve inductance and resistance and double capacitance on the bass circuit. Then adjust tweeter level for more output. Knowing that, you can then convert ANY similar MT project to MTM. Cool, eh?
Attached Images
File Type: png BBC LS3-5A Schematic.PNG (9.0 KB, 284 views)
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Last edited by system7; 5th August 2018 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 5th August 2018, 09:13 PM   #3
hubi is offline hubi  Poland
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Thank you very much! the information was very helpful
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Old 5th August 2018, 09:21 PM   #4
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubi View Post
Did I make it right?
No no no. Tweeter is almost okay. Filter for mid-woofers is totally wrong. It's very close to short-cut with impedance of 1 Ohms. First coil (0.1m) should be much bigger, maybe 0.68-0.82mH. First shunt cap (68u) is usually 15-27uF with 4 Ohms load. Remove next shunt R+L (1+0.47m) and second shunt cap (56u). Then start again; tune component values, invert polarity and increase HP order if necessary and so on.
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Old 5th August 2018, 09:46 PM   #5
hubi is offline hubi  Poland
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Wow, thanks!

I made your Instructions
what you think?
Click the image to open in full size.
Attached Images
File Type: png crossover2.png (314.1 KB, 130 views)

Last edited by hubi; 5th August 2018 at 09:55 PM. Reason: image add
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Old 5th August 2018, 10:39 PM   #6
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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hubi, look over the MTM polar pattern diagram attached to understand polar pattern vs. crossover.

Your current crossover looks like LR2-tweeter circuit and LR2-midwoofers circuit, which typically generates one center-directed lobe(see diagram) - often favored for seated HT because it reduces reflections off of close walls.

Based upon your listening environment, using a BW3-tweeter circuit and BW3-midwoofers circuit will generate a much wider vertical lobe to fill the room with 180-degree polar reflections- sometimes favored for increased room ambience - Big Symphony.

Using a BW3-tweeter circuit and LR2-midwoofers circuit offers some phase shift improvements for a flat baffle, plus a wide polar pattern. The TM Starling xover is BW3-tweeter + LR2-midwoofer_with baffle step comp.. which will generate a wide polar pattern with 6"-7" driver MTM.(see diagram)
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File Type: jpg MTM crossover effects.jpg (191.8 KB, 103 views)
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Old 5th August 2018, 10:51 PM   #7
hubi is offline hubi  Poland
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Sorry it's too much for me - I did not get it ...
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Old 6th August 2018, 06:09 AM   #8
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubi View Post
what you think?
Not good If mid-woofers are also for bass (not just midrange) you better remove external series resistance (3.3ohms) and leave only DCR of the coil, and start over. Sorry.

And while reading BW3 etc philosophies about lobing, remember that you should not ruin power response for that kind of (or any) reason. Make such compromise which has also good power & DI. But you need complete set of off-axis responses to simulate power & DI - as you can see from my sample projects (Kontiainen & Epe-3W).

Last edited by kimmosto; 6th August 2018 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 6th August 2018, 07:08 AM   #9
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Oh dear, all this stuff about MTM lobing...

You get what you get with drivers. Sometimes it's all phase aligned, sometimes it goes 90 degrees and butterworth. This one tends to phase aligned on a simple circuit. And nothing wrong with that.

Just like the Troels project:
Vifa PL14WJ-

Here's a couple of circuits to try. About 3.5kHz crossover. Complicated and simple. Both should sound OK. I could make either of those more butterworth and 90 degree phase by increasing the sharpness of the filters, but it is not easy for a beginner to grasp that sort of stuff. And I'm not sure it matters much. It is slightly different from Troels' idea, because he is using a 3 ohm tweeter. You have a 6 ohm one, so LC values change in the tweeter crossover. Caps smaller, coils bigger when you raise impedance. Just how it works.

Happy modelling.
Attached Images
File Type: png MTM Simple Circuit.PNG (7.5 KB, 75 views)
File Type: png MTM Complicated Circuit.PNG (7.8 KB, 55 views)
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Last edited by system7; 6th August 2018 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 6th August 2018, 06:44 PM   #10
hubi is offline hubi  Poland
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First of all thanks to everybody for help!

I tried the last one
I don't think that supposed to to look like this... :/
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