http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-130
The Ported volume is 4.61 cu. , the sealed volume is just over 2 cubic feet. What would most likely be the most beneficial design when using this driver in a small PA 3-way speaker?
The Ported volume is 4.61 cu. , the sealed volume is just over 2 cubic feet. What would most likely be the most beneficial design when using this driver in a small PA 3-way speaker?
Sealed! The sealed version is smaller and less likely to be driven into overexcursion than the ported one.
If I could suggest, though, a driver that is only 89dB efficient is probably a poor choice for PA. I just built a couple of subs based on Parts Express 290-380, in a 2 cubic foot box tuned to 40hz, and they are VERY nice, and inexpensive too. For about the same amount of money, you could use two of these 10" drivers and get likely the same amount of output as the one Dayton, and not have to drive your amps nearly as hard. The downside would be an increased risk of overexcursion below the tuning frequency, and that some people might look down their nose at you for using inexpensive 10" drivers.
The dayton driver there is really more suitable for home theatre or studio work than for PA.
If I could suggest, though, a driver that is only 89dB efficient is probably a poor choice for PA. I just built a couple of subs based on Parts Express 290-380, in a 2 cubic foot box tuned to 40hz, and they are VERY nice, and inexpensive too. For about the same amount of money, you could use two of these 10" drivers and get likely the same amount of output as the one Dayton, and not have to drive your amps nearly as hard. The downside would be an increased risk of overexcursion below the tuning frequency, and that some people might look down their nose at you for using inexpensive 10" drivers.
The dayton driver there is really more suitable for home theatre or studio work than for PA.
I agree its probably a good idea to give up some bass extension
for more efficiency, the "Pro" trade-off is different to Home use
and its this that fundamentally seperates the types of drivers.
However using home units in multiples for more efficiency means
you can end up with parameters very comparable to Pro drivers.
The bass extension you can achieve at home will be next
to inaudible with single 15" drivers used in large spaces.
Reflexing to around 40 Hz and a bass filter below
say 35 Hz is a good idea for a standard PA 3-way.
I'll also note you shouldn't use a driver without response data.
This is a lot more like it :
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-080
sreten.
for more efficiency, the "Pro" trade-off is different to Home use
and its this that fundamentally seperates the types of drivers.
However using home units in multiples for more efficiency means
you can end up with parameters very comparable to Pro drivers.
The bass extension you can achieve at home will be next
to inaudible with single 15" drivers used in large spaces.
Reflexing to around 40 Hz and a bass filter below
say 35 Hz is a good idea for a standard PA 3-way.
I'll also note you shouldn't use a driver without response data.
This is a lot more like it :
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-080
sreten.Attachments
The Paulinator said:
I wouldnt go for that driver at all.
the maximum SPL is only 94dB @ 10m
http://www.stageaccompany.com/splcalc/splcalc.html
Why not something like this one instead? you will save three quarters of amps for the same spl and have a lot more to give after that, 103dB@10m.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=290-454&DID=7
The total cost for this amp-speaker combo will also be much lower.
Agree with sreten. The Dayton he linked to would be a much beter choice... or 4 of these - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-550
... in a 3.2 cub ft ported tuned to 38-40 Hz would kick but.
I would never concider sealed for a PA sub/woofer. Sealed generaly takes roughly 2-4 times as many drivers as ported to equal the same output in the bottom octave!!!
... in a 3.2 cub ft ported tuned to 38-40 Hz would kick but.
I would never concider sealed for a PA sub/woofer. Sealed generaly takes roughly 2-4 times as many drivers as ported to equal the same output in the bottom octave!!!
Here's the deal:
I really needed some PA speakers, pronto, and on a fairly limited budget. I actually already had one of these Dayton 15's so it was easy on that budget to just get a second one.
I am not really too concerned about the speaker needing too much power, because I already have way more power with this system than I know what to do with (over 2000 watts RMS per side). The reason I didn't go with something like the Eminence woofer is that this Dayton had over twice the Xmax of practically any of the medium priced PA drivers I looked at. For example, that Eminence has 3mm, the Dayton had 8mm. Since these speakers, being used most often by themselves, might be demanded a bit more of on certain occasions, I figured some extra usable travel might help. I know Xmax can be overrated, but in this case, the driver will not be used full range like in many PA cabinets so I wanted a driver that could put out. Did I totally blow it? Or could this work out if I play my cards right?
Won't using a sealed enclosure help that sensitivity problem, as well?
I really needed some PA speakers, pronto, and on a fairly limited budget. I actually already had one of these Dayton 15's so it was easy on that budget to just get a second one.
I am not really too concerned about the speaker needing too much power, because I already have way more power with this system than I know what to do with (over 2000 watts RMS per side). The reason I didn't go with something like the Eminence woofer is that this Dayton had over twice the Xmax of practically any of the medium priced PA drivers I looked at. For example, that Eminence has 3mm, the Dayton had 8mm. Since these speakers, being used most often by themselves, might be demanded a bit more of on certain occasions, I figured some extra usable travel might help. I know Xmax can be overrated, but in this case, the driver will not be used full range like in many PA cabinets so I wanted a driver that could put out. Did I totally blow it? Or could this work out if I play my cards right?
Won't using a sealed enclosure help that sensitivity problem, as well?
Ported and sealed will yield equal sensitivity in the midband.
Ported will yield superior low end extension.
From my experience with DJ's, a normal DJ cab is around 3 cu ft with a ported 15 in speaker and a tweeter crossing over around 2,000 Hz. The tweeter is often a piezo, for anti-blowout purposes.
If this is basically what you are looking at here, I would suggest ported for a yet unmentioned reason: the cone excursion in a ported enclosure is greatly reduced, preventing the lows from muddying the highs too much.
A PA cab is about high output, so you can be sure the bass will be pumping. With one speaker carrying the bass, the midrange and even part of the treble, you can be sure the bass notes will be muddying up the midrange notes, where most of the music is.
I suggest you go ported. A 3 cu ft box should do you nicely, and it only a little bigger than an average house hifi speaker of 2 cu ft.
Ported will yield superior low end extension.
From my experience with DJ's, a normal DJ cab is around 3 cu ft with a ported 15 in speaker and a tweeter crossing over around 2,000 Hz. The tweeter is often a piezo, for anti-blowout purposes.
If this is basically what you are looking at here, I would suggest ported for a yet unmentioned reason: the cone excursion in a ported enclosure is greatly reduced, preventing the lows from muddying the highs too much.
A PA cab is about high output, so you can be sure the bass will be pumping. With one speaker carrying the bass, the midrange and even part of the treble, you can be sure the bass notes will be muddying up the midrange notes, where most of the music is.
I suggest you go ported. A 3 cu ft box should do you nicely, and it only a little bigger than an average house hifi speaker of 2 cu ft.
The Paulinator said:
The Dayton Series II you are interested in would be capable of more SPL than that Eminence. If you were going to go with a Pro 15 the Dayton sreten linked to would be a better choice. With as much power is you have you could get by with the inefficiency of the Series II but it just doesn't model very well for higher port tunings (38-42 Hz) more appropriate for PA. It's more optimize for tunings below 25 Hz appropriate for HT. The 10" Dayton Quatro I linked to isn't the same at all. It models very well for PA & 4 of them will work in roughly the same size box as 1x15" & have more total cone area & higher sensitivity with significantly greater max SPL than the Series II 15". Here's a graph comparing the max SPL of the Series II 15" to 4 of the Quatro 10" in roughly the same size box. The Series II in green (3 cub ft/36 Hz) & the 4 Quatro's in yellow (3.3 cub ft/40 Hz).
Attachments
I'm afraid you have it backwards. Sensitivity goes up for *ported*, and goes down for sealed.
There are so many drivers that could perform better than that Dayton, and possibly even for less price. I picked the ones I did because my "sweet spot" was around $40 dollars, and the drivers I chose were $36 each and model *VERY* well.
Get out your Parts Express catalog and WinISD, and spend a few hours trying out different drivers until you get something you really like!
Another suggestion:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-750
This driver will play in a 2.1 cubic foot ported box (2 cubic feet!!! For a 15"er, that's *TINY*!!!) tuned to 31hz up to unimaginable SPLs. ONE-WAY XMAX of 18mm. 36mm total linear travel.
Of course, they *are* $250 apiece, and they *would* require a monster amp to drive them effectively. But they're a LOT cheaper than 2226's, and they play better too.
There are so many drivers that could perform better than that Dayton, and possibly even for less price. I picked the ones I did because my "sweet spot" was around $40 dollars, and the drivers I chose were $36 each and model *VERY* well.
Get out your Parts Express catalog and WinISD, and spend a few hours trying out different drivers until you get something you really like!
Another suggestion:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-750
This driver will play in a 2.1 cubic foot ported box (2 cubic feet!!! For a 15"er, that's *TINY*!!!) tuned to 31hz up to unimaginable SPLs. ONE-WAY XMAX of 18mm. 36mm total linear travel.
Of course, they *are* $250 apiece, and they *would* require a monster amp to drive them effectively. But they're a LOT cheaper than 2226's, and they play better too.
The Paulinator said:
I just picked one speaker at random which i knew had a decent sensitivity.So "that eminience" isnt the right phrase
sorry.Well, the SPL is a combination of the output level at 1W and the maximum power used before the speaker dies.
(Such things as max spl do have a great impact om where the limit is, thou)
But i only calculated on the sensitivity "multiplied" with its powerhandling.
According to this script which i thought could be useful for you.
http://www.stageaccompany.com/splcalc/splcalc.html
The Paulinator said:
Paul:
A) As I stated previously, a driver in either a ported or sealed cabinet will show the same sensitivity in the midband. If it is 90 dB in a sealed, it will be 90 dB in the ported. It is just that the ported will give better bass extension.
B) You cannot tune a sealed enclosure once it is made. Whatever the resonance point and Qtc is once you put the driver in the cabinet, that's what it stays. You can only "tune" a sealed cabinet by scrapping the box and putting the speaker in a bigger or smaller box.
Only a ported enclosure can be tuned. Or a Transmission Line, or an aperiodic, or others. But a sealed box cannot be tuned.
Well, I said "tuned" for lack of a better word, actually, but thanks for the correction. I just meant doing whatever was necessary to raise the speakers output at the frequencies that mattered most for it in a PA situation.
Well, sounds like I'd better return that woofer to PE and sell the one I already had. Anyone want a new Dayton 15" Series II? They are great for home theater use...
Well, sounds like I'd better return that woofer to PE and sell the one I already had. Anyone want a new Dayton 15" Series II? They are great for home theater use...
Are you talking to me?
The Paulinator said:
I think you should do like someone else said and get a program to play around with.
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd
Power handling: 300 watts RMS/425 watts max Frequency response: 19-1,000 Hz Fs: 19.0 Hz * SPL: 89.5 dB 1W/1m * Vas: 9.64 cu. ft. * Qms: 10.46 * Qes: .35 * Qts: .34 * Xmax: 8.0mm
But it seems to be very suitable for dipole usage. A dipole dont have any airforce to stop the cone-movement and your Xmax of 8mm would be useful there.
Otherwise, the effect it will handle are in the same region as that eminence but the sensitivity is not only low but also just too low to make any decent sound before it fries.
Enter the values of 89.5dB/W and 425W with a distande to the middle of the dancefloor of 10metres will give 96dB.
10metres are a small venue in my ears
and 96dB peak is nothing, not even for soft classical music.
You need atleast 110dB peak.
This is the best 15inch speaker you could find for a PA bass system, its very expensive but just so you have something to compare to.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=294-560
Huh, a question just popped up, have you considered any 18incher?
Usually 15inch are used for lomid rather than bass.
I have. The first 18's I ever used were amazing. I got them from MCM about 8 or 9 years ago, but I can't figure out which of all the current lines of Eminence drivers they are closest to. They cost somewhere between 80 and 100 bucks at the time. They were awesome. I might look into some 18's here.
The Paulinator said:
I just checked PE and there was a great pricedifference between 15" and 18" , here we dont have such a huge difference.
But this one seems to me to be the cheapest of the decent ones ($147)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-462
Personally i am quite new to eminence.
Here are jbl, ev, rcf and beyma the most used brands, and eminence is rather new on the market but i have also been amazed about them.
electroaudio said:
the Dayton Pro 15 I originally linked to has parameters that
are surprisingly close to the EV, ported box 40Hz, 90 to 150L.
The only "problem" with a 18" is basically extra box size.
The Dpro18" is pretty good :
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-085
Here optimum port tunining is lower, around 30Hz, so really
you are gaining bass extension rather than efficiency.
sreten.Attachments
sreten said:
the Dayton Pro 15 I originally linked to has parameters that
are surprisingly close to the EV, ported box 40Hz, 90 to 150L.
The only "problem" with a 18" is basically extra box size.
The Dpro18" is pretty good :
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-085
Here optimum port tunining is lower, around 30Hz, so really
you are gaining bass extension rather than efficiency.
Those EVs have a remarcable efficiency
one of them will blow out a dozen of jbls..I did it once when i had 4x jbl 18 and 4x jbl 15 on one side, each of them powered with LAB1000 amps and then i had a compact 3way box at the other side with one ev 15 in each (a stereopair) the evs was louder than the jbls.
-BTW, The dancefloor was only 4x10metres
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