Experienced guys cannot suggest drivers without knowing what the driver is supposed to do. This is why every group project to build anything not just speakers has to have some sort of spec.
No I cannot see because, as I told you at the time, $500 is not a realistic sum for a budget 3 way (it is for a budget 2 way). How many of those that voted >$500 3 way and are seriously interested in the project want $1k speakers and how many $5k speakers?
This is starting look a bit like a spec but you need to harden it. Top of the range Accuton drivers? or something else? What does performance mean given things like wideband drivers have been mentioned: high fidelity or high end?
Really? Can you give me an example of a well designed $1k 3 way that follows conventional good design practise without being quirky. You might expect there to be loads but...
A reason for me to build it? I design and build my own speakers. I strongly suspect most experienced designers do likewise and have little interest in building other people's designs although they may be happy to contribute to a group design. It is the relatively inexperienced that build other people's designs.
But making it clear who the speakers are being aimed at is very much part of a spec. It is the sort of thing that allows people to judge whether they are in or out. You will lose some people (like me) but that is fine if it builds enthusiasm in others.
A spec should lean more towards specify a function rather than a part so that people can make suggestions. A waveguide controls directivity, increases sensitivity although in an uneven manner and is fairly large (although the one I suggested is the size of a tweeter). If you are going to specify smoothly controlled directivity what shape should it be?
It is very unlikely to be for sale in the diyaudio store given what happened earlier. It is also very unlikely to be for sale in any other store if it is a group design and the individual copyrights are not explicitly grouped/handled in some way.
Got some time to write this down.
Woofer 10":
1- Satori WO24P - Very Good reputation, 0.4 QTS, Does not need a huge box to go low. Behaves well in sealed as well.
2- Scanspeak Classic 25W/8565- Good old classic 8565, Doesn't need further intruduction.
for Sealed/ Dipole :
1- Peerless SDF-250F75PR01 - 0.46 QTS, Will do well in smaller size boxes.
Mid 4":
1- Fostex FE108EZ - Sweet Fostex sound needs no intro ! reasonably priced.
2- Scanspeak Discovery 10F/4424G - I have the older 8424 and it sounds really nice.
Tweeter:
Dome:
1-Satori TW29R Ring Dome Tweeter.
2- Morel Elite ET338 - Well reputation.
Ribbon:
1- Fountek NeoCd3.0M - I think we all know this one.
I tried to go with high sensetivity drivers so we will keep the tube amps happy as well.
all drivers have the sensetivity around 90DB, and have good reputations.
If i m not mistaken we can go with 500/5000 cross point with any of the configurations with above drivers.
And also I think the Pearless is a well fitted candidate for a dipole if we dicide to go that way.
so shoot, lemme know what you think.
Woofer 10":
1- Satori WO24P - Very Good reputation, 0.4 QTS, Does not need a huge box to go low. Behaves well in sealed as well.
2- Scanspeak Classic 25W/8565- Good old classic 8565, Doesn't need further intruduction.
for Sealed/ Dipole :
1- Peerless SDF-250F75PR01 - 0.46 QTS, Will do well in smaller size boxes.
Mid 4":
1- Fostex FE108EZ - Sweet Fostex sound needs no intro ! reasonably priced.
2- Scanspeak Discovery 10F/4424G - I have the older 8424 and it sounds really nice.
Tweeter:
Dome:
1-Satori TW29R Ring Dome Tweeter.
2- Morel Elite ET338 - Well reputation.
Ribbon:
1- Fountek NeoCd3.0M - I think we all know this one.
I tried to go with high sensetivity drivers so we will keep the tube amps happy as well.
all drivers have the sensetivity around 90DB, and have good reputations.
If i m not mistaken we can go with 500/5000 cross point with any of the configurations with above drivers.
And also I think the Pearless is a well fitted candidate for a dipole if we dicide to go that way.
so shoot, lemme know what you think.
it was nice to have your input, but if you are not interested in this thread or the direction it is going, I understand if you do not like to participate.
Sensitivity is usually determined by the woofer and its Implementation. Randomly suggesting cool drivers or xover frequencies will not be useful to engage the crowd.
We need a design goal! Size, efficiency, WAF, ease of building, parts availability around the world, etc.? I do see some hints on these and other points in previous posts, but it's difficult to get a clear picture. Could you start a summary list (bullet points) to describe what we are after?
I TRIED to have the other drivers in same sensitivity range as the woofer so we won't loose much on that, and xover points are classic s points suggested by 6l6, i m not the guy to ask about crossovers 
and what do you mean by cool ?
that was a good one, i read the reviews on them, and not sure if that classify them as "COOL" drivers. lol.
and what do you mean by cool ?
that was a good one, i read the reviews on them, and not sure if that classify them as "COOL" drivers. lol.
Last edited:
Interest and participation are not the same thing. My interest in how this group project progresses (or not) is largely independent of whether the adopted speaker design is one I would wish to help design (or could for some designs where the logic behind them baffles me). It is why I am mostly suggesting how to go about things rather than building a case for a particular design. My suggestions seem to be falling on rather stony ground which is fine and interesting if I am observing. Would of course be less fine if I had a stake in a successful outcome.
Aatto, I think this project is not going to become a success unless you consult with Charlie Laub, a very nice and smart guy. Ha has been involved in organizing a Crossover Design Contest almost three years ago. There is a thread about it.
I just wonder, who exactly is going to do the actual work of building and tuning this loudspeaker and with what motivation?
I just wonder, who exactly is going to do the actual work of building and tuning this loudspeaker and with what motivation?
Last edited:
and i appreciate it, the thing is there are too many suggestions in different directions, and they are all right and helpful, but it is not easy or possible to follow them all, that is why i tried the poll, but since there are to many different taste and none of them are wrong it is not going to be easy, and I thought about what you said, if someone is knowledgeable enough to design an speaker he s not gonna need this, and designing anything simple would not be big achievement.
you are absolutely right this is not going anywhere, we are moving backward, I did suggest if someone can take over, my goal was to come up with a design that anyone could contribute, and even better with an already made and known design as an starting point, I m thinking to build an updated and smaller basszilla (the 3 way version) myself I did gave some hints here but didn't want to push to that direction but it is not gonna work because everything need a direction. I was thinking not to make this a project for myself as for example I cannot afford to build a 1000$+ project at this time, and I start to see what senior members were trying to say now, but since most of them were with a know it all tone I didn't listen
. that would be nice to have Charlie Laub taking over but for now I m getting frustrated with some of none helping attitudes and I need a break.
Last edited:
I think you may find that many experienced designers are rather more interested in the challenges of getting a set of decent but modestly priced components to perform well together in order to create something greater than the sum of the parts than they are in the lesser challenges of working with a set of expensive well behaved drivers. Cheap and good isn't simple but expensive and good might be.
A modest budget, if we can call $1k modest, also means you are drawing from a larger pool of people who might build the speaker.
Enthusiasm trumps pretty much everything. If two or three people can get enthusiastic about a particular design, no matter what it is, a group project like this is likely to be successful. You probably ought to be one of the people getting enthusiastic and so straying outside the bounds of what you can get enthusiastic about may not be wise. If that is a 3 way mini-basszilla then write a spec for it and see if you can generate enthusiasm. No matter what the design most people will be just chatting or not interested but you don't need most people just two or three.
How about this?
Attached is a pdf file of a AutoCad drawing I did for a three way floorstander. I have included all the dimensions and volumes. How about picking out drivers and a crossover design for a high end three way floorstander?
How about limiting crossover and driver costs under $2500?
What say yee?
Attached is a pdf file of a AutoCad drawing I did for a three way floorstander. I have included all the dimensions and volumes. How about picking out drivers and a crossover design for a high end three way floorstander?
How about limiting crossover and driver costs under $2500?
What say yee?
Last edited:
I have both of those. Alpair 7.3 is better, the new Alpair 7ms (no spider) promises/might be better. And cheaper. And makes the tweeter optional.
dave
And this is why it is often doubled, 8R in parallel. Dedicated midranges tend to be rather efficient and low Fs woofers typically aren't!
Another benefit of doubling is to get lower cone movement and less distortion. And floorstanders look better that way!
This project is still open for many design outlines! The suggested coaxial and waveguide-loaded tweeter both use rather low xo and steep slopes. My personal preference for a 3-way is LR2 and high xo for MT. It needs a very nice midrange without cone resonances!
At AVS forum there is a long thread where JBL M2 vs. Revel Salon2 were blind tested and the "traditional" Revel was preferred very clearly. Comments by Floyd Toole, who has Salon2 at his home set!
Speaker Shootout - two of the most accurate and well reviewed speakers ever made - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Last edited:
I agree with some of the earlier sentiments...
1. 2 way standmount monitor version, which can be used with optional subwoofers.
2. 3 way (or more) floorstanding fullrange version, with the same tweeter and upper-mid woofer with the same crossover point.
Then people could build either version with the same drivers and experiment. Whether it's open baffle or horn-loaded or traditional box or trapezoidal box, I don't really mind.
1. 2 way standmount monitor version, which can be used with optional subwoofers.
2. 3 way (or more) floorstanding fullrange version, with the same tweeter and upper-mid woofer with the same crossover point.
Then people could build either version with the same drivers and experiment. Whether it's open baffle or horn-loaded or traditional box or trapezoidal box, I don't really mind.
Last edited:
Absolutely understandable. The very idea of making this a collaborative project in the form as it is right now, seems to appear a little too hard to pull off, so I'd recommend to modify it into asking design proposals by individuals and then make a new poll on which ones are to be built. I imagine this to be a simulation design only and if it'll come that far to be actually built, then measurements should be performed to arrive at a final solution. Basically a lot of work, probably 2 months for an experienced DIYer, or something like that.
Theoretically speaking, my interest and a challenge would be something in the sense Andy mentioned, to achieve a good quality design using very modestly priced parts. High end pricing policy and other nonsense, I am not interested in.
It's YOUR thread, so YOU propose the design direction!
This is Basszilla, right? (Open baffle 2-way using a planar tweeter plus a 7 inch mid, with bass cabinet below)
What do you think of the Undefinition Sunflower as a general layout, but instead with a planar tweeter and a single mid-woofer?
Sunflower [Redux] - undefinition
Attachments
Yep. Variac posing with his kit. I guess this is the 2nd gen, those are 8” Fostex FE208E∑ mids.
dave
- Status
- Not open for further replies.