Dropped another Bose-Bomb!

[ratman542]

I work with a couple of guys who own Bose stuff, -and I always enjoy giving them a hard time (imagine that!)

However, I do have to be careful though since one of the guys is my supervisor, -and could technically fire me at will!

I was told today by my supervisor that his 901's "make really good low-end bass", -to which I responded "I guess it all depends on what your definition of what good low-end bass is".

Obviously, that didn't earn me too many points with the boss. He has a good sense of humor though and started bashing me because of all my home-made speakers and running "obscene" amounts of power, etc.

I have heard 901's before, and was never that impressed.

They certainly didn't live up to all the hype that so many people gave them.

Can anyone here on this forum tell me how these multi-weenie drivers can even work at all? I know about the special EQ thingy, but what exactly does it do?

I am merely curious.

Oh, and if anyone has any "additional comments" about the 901's, let 'em fly! I could have a lot of fun with this, -right up until the point where I get fired!

Rich.

[SY]

The 901s were famously power hungry.

[sreten]

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/425/

More ammunition than you'll ever need.

edit : sorry they seem to have removed the measurements,
which speak for themselves, the review is polite to a fault.

sreten.

[Variac]

From watching "discussions" turn into nasty arguments on these pages, I suggest not discussing this much, but instead inviting him over to hear your rig. Then it's easier for him to back down, and you might find that you guys become "audio buddies" likely to help maintain your job

BUT be prepared to find out that he isn't "blown away " by your system. Usually people are immedietly aware that the sound is vastly superior, but sometimes they still just don't care.

Anyway good luch keeping your job

[5th element]

"dropped another bose bomb"

Well hopefully this one was powerful enough to explode all the bose stuff in existance! Kaboom

[hunter audio]

hi

well here goes , i am not at all a bose fan though i can explain a few of the concepts behind the 901 drivers and the enclosure

firstly the drivers - all are 0.9 ohmish edge wound al with an x- max of about 3 mm

all are 25 mm in dia and wired in series there-fore the power hungry nature

will get back to the eq thing and why he had to include it !

its my assessment that it has no place in re production of demanding sound applications , the phase and the timing has been too much messed with to be any where but accurate

but it has the potential of astounding sterio imaging , playing extremely loud - yet amazingly distortion free , - to the limited bandwith it covers as the - 3 db and - 6 db points are all over the audio range

this is does due to the driver placement concept

it has a very impressive sound and plays different since inside that wooden enclosure there is a - poly moulded - matrix enclosure

this enclosure is responisble for the low end - which is not actually taking the driver to deep lows but devolops a impressive mid bassish , fullish bass which for comparison to size to low end impressiveness strikes a cord

what the matrix does - and how the drivers are loaded :-

firstly each driver fires into its own individual (mini) enclosure , avoiding loading problems , then 4 of these (mini) enclosures open into a chamber , this chamber is in turn ported

other than the advantages over porting this also helps increase power handling of these short coil drivers and also helps reducing distortion when playing loud

the centre driver too has its own (mini) enclosure

now this poly - plastic matrix enclosure is made of a accoustic material which its-elf resonates and produces a impessive mid bassish sound

(this concept has been exploited by JBL in the conlrol series and bose 802 wher the exteriors enclosure is of this material)

this sandwiching of materials have been done very carefully where it also reduces the wooden enclosure resonances

due to this sandwiching bose had to go in for polymer chassis spk s way back as metal chassis will ring and present it s own probs

now the c/o - basically if you compaire the drive unit to any - other good drive unit - its very flimsy ,

over - boosting dbs ie thru a graphic eq / active tone controls will drive the drivers hard

plus the drivers do not cover the entire audio spectrum linearly there-fore people may attempt to boost those frequencies to correct speaker performance

in doing so again driving the drive units hard

therfore he has given his own c/o for the user to play around with - whose frequency of operation - q - matches with the driver/box optimum efficiency points - yet keeping the driver s from being over - loaded

i guess he could go in for heavier drivers - yet may be the entire concept will not work if you go in for heavier drivers

and bose s unique life-style appeal will cannot be met

over a period of time ive left the bose owners on their own as i think through his research in physio - accoustics - he simulates a phychological viel over the customer - that bose is it - in speakers !

personally i would advise that in the end of the day if speakers size is of concern throw out Bose and go in for Meyer sound or KRK

suranjan das gupta

transducer design engineer

[kelticwizard]

I might be one of the few Bose-neutral people on this forum.

To be honest, I have not had the time to audition the 901 for any length, although I have heard them.

Bose goes for a different goal than most speaker designers. Frequency response with those drivers is bound to be ragged, even with equalization. But by bouncing the sound off the walls in all directions, Bose has a power distribution that is far different, and some might sense, far better, than average speakers whose output falls off quickly 30 degrees off axis.

Want to know why tweeters were made smaller? They used to be two or three inches across. It was found that sound that is focused too tightly directly at the listener, with a very reduced output outside of a certain "sweet spot", sound harsh. Many people prefer a sound that it not so focused in one area.

That is what Bose does with the idea of bouncing the sound all over the place, to be reflected back to the listener.

This is an unconventional idea, and most loudspeaker people treat it badly. However, the 901's sales figures show that at least some people find it preferable to the conventional way of diong things.

As SY said, they are indeed power hungry. Frequency response charts look awful, even with equalization.

I suggest you do what Variac suggested. Invite him over and tell him to bring some of his favorite CD's or records. Then let him critique your system. He might find some good things about your system that he doesn't hear in his own. Or maybe not, but at least you two will have heard each other's system when you argue.

PS: Your boss isn't one of those guys that everything he buys is the smartest buy in the world type guys, is he? In which case, an invition over would yield little. Not to pick on Bose, but since it is the most famous name in loudspeakers, some people buy it with the idea that they have bought was is generally recognized as the world's best loudspeaker. And people who feel they have bought the best might not react well when that status is challenged.....

[eRiCdWoNg]

Originally posted by sreten
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/425/

More ammunition than you'll ever need.

edit : sorry they seem to have removed the measurements,
which speak for themselves, the review is polite to a fault.

sreten.

Not trying to hijack this thread- but that article is interesting about the comb filtering- however this is the same thing that happens with us dipolar owners. Hmm. But ours dont use a ton (or any) electronic EQing to boost the bass and boost the treble.

However I believe I read somewhere that bose IS the largest consumer audio speaker company. They have a good marketing department and even in PA systems they use unconventional methods (802 series as well as the new Cylinderical line source live music system).

As for the 901s themselves, Ive never really used them but Ive used their pro audio counterparts 802II. The same principles are used, multi small drivers with alotta EQ. I never liked the idea of using such heavy active EQing. THeir OEM car audio systems do the same thing.

[ratman542]

Originally posted by hunter audio
hi

well here goes , i am not at all a bose fan though i can explain a few of the concepts behind the 901 drivers and the enclosure

I read your entire post. Wow, thanks for all the info. That is exacty what I was looking for.

I have to tell a deep dark secret..........

I used to own a pair of 301 series 2's. The main complaint I had with them was the 8" drivers being too flimsy. I exceeded x-max on them too many times to count , and had to have the 8" drivers replaced (the first time covered under warranty, -if you can believe that!) The tweeters sounded nice (as I remember), and as for the reflected sound out of the corners, -I only ever used them in my small bedroom as a teenager, -so they made the small room sound much bigger.

Knowing what I know now, and hearing what I have heard (since then), I would never pay out any money for another bose speaker, but to be fair and honest, back when I had the 301's, they fit the bill pretty nicely.

Rich.

[hunter audio]

The tweeters sounded nice (as I remember), and as for the reflected sound out of the corners, -I only ever used them in my small bedroom as a teenager

hi

thanks , another info is that bose 302 and whats that model with double 8 firing skywards !

the tweeters sound different - distinct and out of the box - since he need not maintain phase responce accuracy ets

- the tweeter lines are delayed through the passive cross over - its a gimmick !

nothing great in the tweeters they are normal CCAW wound light wt paper cone tweeters

oh another thing if any one is really looking for some one with more knowledge in wave teachnology than bose and not worried about speaker size should go for Duntech

oh by the way this thread may help with the boss as you can point out -
i am not only the place from where Bose is but also the same town and Language ets.

instead of being proud i can only take lessons from his marketing policy - ( this strictly is restricted to his speaker company and profit margins) - otherwise i am well aware of his knowledge - path breaking research and applications - softwares - noise reduction (military equipment) and accoustics application as is evident in the Mercedes S series ets (yet his spks are ????????)

suranjan das gupta

transducer design engineer