Peerless MTMMM and MMTMMMM - 2.5 way designs
Feedback sought. A 2.5 way.
Goal is to see what i could do with relatively cheap drivers and to get system sensitivity >= 91 dB. Limited my tweeter choices (as you can see - no padding).
Minimum impedance 4.6 ohms @ 3,600 Hz.
Given the flange of the woofer, you could get away with surface mounting these so no need for a router if you can't do recessed holes.
LR4 acoustic target. Crossover point high (~2,600Hz), but in order to protect the tweeter. Went as steep as I could without going fancy.
Drivers:
Woofer - Peerless BC18EK05-08 6.5"
Peerless BC18WK05-08 6.5" Paper Cone Woofer
Tweeter - Peerless DX25TG59-04 1"
Vifa DX25TG59-04 1" Fabric Dome Tweeter
Feedback sought. A 2.5 way.
Goal is to see what i could do with relatively cheap drivers and to get system sensitivity >= 91 dB. Limited my tweeter choices (as you can see - no padding).
Minimum impedance 4.6 ohms @ 3,600 Hz.
Given the flange of the woofer, you could get away with surface mounting these so no need for a router if you can't do recessed holes.
LR4 acoustic target. Crossover point high (~2,600Hz), but in order to protect the tweeter. Went as steep as I could without going fancy.
Drivers:
Woofer - Peerless BC18EK05-08 6.5"
Peerless BC18WK05-08 6.5" Paper Cone Woofer
Tweeter - Peerless DX25TG59-04 1"
Vifa DX25TG59-04 1" Fabric Dome Tweeter
Attachments
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Looks like Joe has evolved to SB Acoustics woofers and a Peerless tweeter? Have you got a link to the appropriate version handy?
Hi Dave. Just go back to posts around 2011 in the Elsinore thread and you will see version 5 with Peerless mid woofers. The tweeter remains unchanged. Version 6 has the SB mid woofers which are not so much an upgrade as an alternative. I have the V5's and a friend of mine has the V6's and neither of us can really point to any discernable differences. We are both driving them with a pair of Monarchy SM70 pro class A monoblocks and are extremely happy with both the speakers and the amps. A very good combination as the Elsinore's are very efficient.
When I saw your first post I thought "That looks familiar"
When I saw your first post I thought "That looks familiar"
The original Elsinores MK1 used the poly cone Peerless midwoofers and some time later (can't remember which version) went to the 830875 which has a Nomex cone and is slightly more efficient. The 810921 (Peerless) or D2608 (Scanspeak) Tweeters are identical. There is quite a story why two manufacturers made an identical unit. The D2608 and the 810921 are both listed as available from WES components in NSW.
Hi Dave,
Building a "clone" of the Elsinore speakers with the cheaper paper cone 830657 could be an interresting project. The four 6.5" could be paired with the Vifa DX25TG59 as seen in this project :
Tarkus - undefinition
FIY I've build the Nomex 164, a 2.5 way from Troels Gravesenand after the Elsinore and I didn't found the second one more sensitive neither best sounding also.
Building a "clone" of the Elsinore speakers with the cheaper paper cone 830657 could be an interresting project. The four 6.5" could be paired with the Vifa DX25TG59 as seen in this project :
Tarkus - undefinition
FIY I've build the Nomex 164, a 2.5 way from Troels Gravesenand after the Elsinore and I didn't found the second one more sensitive neither best sounding also.
Cheers. I actually swapped the BC18 for the 830657 and paired it with the DX25 before I found Paul's project above (The Tarkus). I'm just redoing the crossover with these. I need to model excursion because 3.64mm xmax doesn't give you a lot to play with.
Cheap/decent tweeters?
Peerless XT25BG60-04 Vifa Ring Dome Tweeter. Another few dollars at $28 each, with 91.5dB/1W and fairly well-regarded.
Vifa XT25BG60-04 Vifa Ring Dome Tweeter - Double Magnet - 4 ohm
How about Peerless DQ25SC16-04, 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter at $23? It's 94dB/2.83V:
Vifa DQ25SC16-04, 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter
Planar tweeter? Hi-Vi RT1C-A Isodynamic Tweeter, 120mm, 94dB at $38. Xo too high perhaps?
Hi-Vi RT1C-A Isodynamic Tweeter, 120mm, 94dB
It's worth paying more than half the driver budget for the tweeter alone...
Peerless XT25BG60-04 Vifa Ring Dome Tweeter. Another few dollars at $28 each, with 91.5dB/1W and fairly well-regarded.
Vifa XT25BG60-04 Vifa Ring Dome Tweeter - Double Magnet - 4 ohm
How about Peerless DQ25SC16-04, 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter at $23? It's 94dB/2.83V:
Vifa DQ25SC16-04, 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter
Planar tweeter? Hi-Vi RT1C-A Isodynamic Tweeter, 120mm, 94dB at $38. Xo too high perhaps?
Hi-Vi RT1C-A Isodynamic Tweeter, 120mm, 94dB
It's worth paying more than half the driver budget for the tweeter alone...
The Hi-vi has too higher a xo point (4500) given the beaming issues I'll have with 6.5" drivers.
The XT25 has better odd order harmonics > 2Khz but doesn't quite have the smooth on-axis response of the DX and better bottom end extension for shaping the tail.
the DQ25 has a higher Fs (1320Hz) and I personally (for no other reason than a rule of thumb) prefer to xo at >= 2* the FS of the driver. don't know where I got that rule of thumb from (whether material to distortion or allowing an impedance correction circuit to be avoided). In anycase I don't have a distortion plot to know if any better than the DX25.
Thanks for the suggestions though!
Zaph said nice things about distortion in DQ25, but that was 15 years ago. I like its smaller face for close MTM spacing and built-in dome shield.
2x Fs is a good place to start, but you can easily bend a rule of thumb.
It would be nice if there was an 8 Ohm tweeter out there to keep the Z curve flatter out there.
2x Fs is a good place to start, but you can easily bend a rule of thumb.
It would be nice if there was an 8 Ohm tweeter out there to keep the Z curve flatter out there.
Agreed on the 4 ohm challenge. Latest modeling attempts are not looking Z healthy at higher frequency (3 Ohm dips). Stay tuned....
I've come up with 2 designs, both using the Peerless 830657 woofer and Vifa DX25TG05-04 (aka Scan speak D2604-830000).
Design "A" - a 4 woofer MTMMM 2.5 way. Min impedance 3.6 ohms between 4KHz and 7Khz
Design "B" - a 6 woofer MMTMMMM 2.5 way. Min impedance 3.0 ohms at 9KHz
Enclosures
A - 80L vented, tuned to 40 Hz, F3 = 54Hz, Max SPL 111dB. System sensitivity ~ 89 dB (including ~ 4 dB baffle step compensation)
B - 120L vented, tuned to 40 Hz, F3 = 54Hz, Max SPL 114dB. System sensitivity ~ 92 dB (including ~ 4 dB baffle step compensation)
The remainder of the images in this post relate to the A design
Design "A" - a 4 woofer MTMMM 2.5 way. Min impedance 3.6 ohms between 4KHz and 7Khz
Design "B" - a 6 woofer MMTMMMM 2.5 way. Min impedance 3.0 ohms at 9KHz
Enclosures
A - 80L vented, tuned to 40 Hz, F3 = 54Hz, Max SPL 111dB. System sensitivity ~ 89 dB (including ~ 4 dB baffle step compensation)
B - 120L vented, tuned to 40 Hz, F3 = 54Hz, Max SPL 114dB. System sensitivity ~ 92 dB (including ~ 4 dB baffle step compensation)
The remainder of the images in this post relate to the A design
Attachments
Hi Dave,
I vote for the A design MTMMM - 80L vented, tuned to 40 Hz, F3 = 54Hz, Max SPL 111dB. System sensitivity ~ 89 dB (including ~ 4 dB baffle step compensation)
They are already very big speakers !
IMHO if you want more sensitivity go for more sensitive drivers not for more drivers.
I vote for the A design MTMMM - 80L vented, tuned to 40 Hz, F3 = 54Hz, Max SPL 111dB. System sensitivity ~ 89 dB (including ~ 4 dB baffle step compensation)
They are already very big speakers !
IMHO if you want more sensitivity go for more sensitive drivers not for more drivers.
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