DIY tops for Othorn/ES18 stack?

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Infinite Audio NZ

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Joined 2017
Hello people

Sorry in advance if this is the wrong sub-forum.

So my brain is beginning to overflow and the fuzz is starting to set in, after days and days of trying to determine some appropriate potential top boxes for our system. When names, numbers and images start to blur together, its time to quit being a noob and ask the pros.

Here are some parameters to aid consideration....

  • Subwoofers: 8 x Othorn loaded with B&C 21SW152 4ohm
  • Low/mids: 8 x ES18 BPH loaded with Fane Col18XB 8ohm

  • The full system has all 8 x subs laid on their side and top/tailed, with 4 x low/mids per side, stacked ontop in a cube (2x2)

  • The crossover for the ES18's is 120hz for us, which is the sweet spot for our ES18 modified design, so the low of the tops needs to be able to handle that with ease.

  • Amplification for the tops is the Lab Gruppen FP10000q series.

  • Our system is primarily used outdoors during the summer for electronic music festivals, and caters to an audience of between 100 - 2500 people.

  • We purchased the F1 Res 2 clones (three per side) just to use in the interim, until we had the funds/time to make our own, of which we now have both. As a comparison, dispersion-wise, I personally like what the Res 2's achieve (clones and the originals). Throw seems hard to gauge on the clones, as the drivers are obviously the variable and subpar, but all in all, the Res 2's satisfy these two factors for me. As for sound quality, that's another story :rolleyes:

  • I was recently considering just purchasing 6 x Meyer MSL-4's. Reports from associates who run these for outdoor electronic festivals are mixed. Seem great for 300 plus people at three per side, although their narrow dispersion and long throw make them kind of undesirable when you break the system down for smaller events.

  • The tops need to be able to keep pace with the Othorns. Eight of them create some serious pressure.
I've looked at many top box designs, from the simple to the more intricate, and I'm liking the look of something like the PM90 which was suggested by a friend today.

New DIY Mid High | Sound Forums

But yeah, I'm at the just-not-sure stage right now, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Aaron
 
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chrapladm

Member
Joined 2010
LOL!!!

The guy who made the PM90 design lives not too far from me. I was going to suggest his design. I had a chance to have a listen to them a while back. I would have made them myself but dont have a fully active system. So I havent done anything like that yet.

I will also have to check out Peter's thread to see if anyone came up with a simpler active setup or passive xo since I last viewed the thread.
 
blossom

blossom

Member
Joined 2011
"I would have made them myself but dont have a fully active system"


Nobody in the pm90 or 60 threads went completely passive, seldom few did use the out of the box BMS passive crossover(which is deemed to be a good unit) for the compression driver its self. Results are not much reported on although going that way will limit ultimate power handling.
 
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chrapladm

Member
Joined 2010
I met Peter when he first starting testing his design. He was using Lake processors and all PS amps. I cant afford that. I was looking at maybe using the Berry DCX but it was not done by anyone yet so I had to wait. PLUS at the time I could not afford the single 1100aud BMS driver and then another 1000 for the pair of 12's per cabinet.

My budget concerns have changed but now I am trying to build my ultimate Synergy horn using a TPL200. But for everyone else I think his design is great if you can afford it.
 
I

Infinite Audio NZ

Member
Joined 2017
chrapladm said:
I met Peter when he first starting testing his design. He was using Lake processors and all PS amps. I cant afford that. I was looking at maybe using the Berry DCX but it was not done by anyone yet so I had to wait. PLUS at the time I could not afford the single 1100aud BMS driver and then another 1000 for the pair of 12's per cabinet.

My budget concerns have changed but now I am trying to build my ultimate Synergy horn using a TPL200. But for everyone else I think his design is great if you can afford it.
Click to expand...

What company is PS?

We are using the QSC Core series (overkill I know) so I'm hoping that will do the job :D
 
M

mark100

Member
Joined 2010
Hi Aaron,

Yes, I built the PM90s, and am VERY happy with them.

There is also the PM60 degree version, which came about because folks wanted to splay mutiples together. 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi | Sound Forums

Peter designed the boxes to reach to 100Hz, but I think they might work even better crossed at 120Hz. They do reach to 100Hz fine, but it takes a little shelving added at about 145Hz.

I've been using a PLD4.5 to drive the boxes with 2 channels paralleled, and each section of the BMS coax with it's own channel. I like that I get both rms and peak limiting for both BMS sections.
But I have used the BMS passive xover too, when I knew no chance of overdrive existed, for several hundred people with a single PM90 on two labhorns per side. The passive xover works well IMO.

As for processing, I honestly think time spent with conventional PEQ's could do the job fine. I've done that just using the limited number of filters in the PLDs.

That said, the boxes do get truly glorious the more they are dialed in.
There are response variations to work out with all 3 driver sections, but the acoustic design is so well done, and the output per size/weight is awesome.

I have meyer mts4a's and the PM boxes are louder and cleaner through the comparable freq range. The PMs are about 9dB louder than my JTR3TX.

Maybe the only downer for your setup, is with all your awesome bottom end, you will probably want multiple tops per side?? If 90 deg works, please ignore following comments..


The 60 degree version was made for that and works fine, but it splays a little awkwardly IMO.
Peter cuts the back corners off his boxes to help tight pack the splay a little better. He ran the square boxes through a saw after they were built. Smart fella in many ways !

I've been toying with the same drivers in a way to tight pack better......kind of an "unfolded" version Modular Mid-High | Sound Forums
I don't at all mean to recommend my version...
Peter's design is known single cabinet wonder...mine is just playing around trying stuff :)
I built my trap boxes to match the 60 degree horn pattern, the XT1464.
They are 40 degree pie wedges (with the back chopped off).
I'm saying all that so you can get an idea of splay angle. The angle is close to right, just maybe a wee bit hot on-axis between 2 1464 horns. Next project is to measure how 2 HF 950 90 deg horns splay.

Hope this helps...! Feel free to ask away....I get giddy thinking about all your bass :D
 
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