New to this site so i hope im posting in the correct section, semi mixed question so wasn't sure.
So im looking at upgrading to a better sound system for my home, will be used in my entertainment/hang out room and be hooked to my main PC. Ive had a handful of different surround sound systems and set ups, currently have the Logitech Z906 system but its starting to die and im looking for something more. i would use this set up almost 24/7 and usually played fairly loud, my Z906 system i usually have around 70% and most the time it cant take it past that with out starting to "crack"
I was originally looking into getting PA speakers/set up for my home and was asking a few musician friends and all and ended up talking to some one that did studio recording and he recommended studio monitors apposed to PA speakers. so Ive done a bunch of reading and all on both and here is my thoughts and or questions and would love to get everyone's input and thoughts.
Studio monitors sound like they have amazing quality and put out "true sound" but a lot of the forums ive read kept using the word "flat" and that the music gets dull to listen to after awhile for causal listening. and no where did i read that they get "loud" or sound powerful. which makes me feel like there great for recording and finding errors in recording but would not sound great for just listening to music/gaming/movies.
PA speakers i feel like will be plenty loud and or powerful for what im looking for but i don't want them to just sound loud and not very clear, im not "ear" picky at all in aspect of i need the perfect sound but i can tell when something sounds good quality or not. also if PA speakers would be to large in aspect they would sound off due to small room size compared to what there made for, not really physically.
any input i would appreciate. to give you an idea of what im looking at doing heres the components im looking at and comparing
Behringer monitor2USB, use this to go from my computer to active speakers and as my sound control and surround sound distribution
looking at these 2 choices in speakers as they both roughly same price range and size yet two different speakers, ones a Studio monitor others an active PA speaker.
Yamaha HS8 8" Powered Studio Monitor
Or
Peavey Dark Matter 112 660w Powered Speaker
i don't know if links for other sites selling stuff is aloud on this forum site is why i didn't post links, i can though if it helps.
Thanks!
So im looking at upgrading to a better sound system for my home, will be used in my entertainment/hang out room and be hooked to my main PC. Ive had a handful of different surround sound systems and set ups, currently have the Logitech Z906 system but its starting to die and im looking for something more. i would use this set up almost 24/7 and usually played fairly loud, my Z906 system i usually have around 70% and most the time it cant take it past that with out starting to "crack"
I was originally looking into getting PA speakers/set up for my home and was asking a few musician friends and all and ended up talking to some one that did studio recording and he recommended studio monitors apposed to PA speakers. so Ive done a bunch of reading and all on both and here is my thoughts and or questions and would love to get everyone's input and thoughts.
Studio monitors sound like they have amazing quality and put out "true sound" but a lot of the forums ive read kept using the word "flat" and that the music gets dull to listen to after awhile for causal listening. and no where did i read that they get "loud" or sound powerful. which makes me feel like there great for recording and finding errors in recording but would not sound great for just listening to music/gaming/movies.
PA speakers i feel like will be plenty loud and or powerful for what im looking for but i don't want them to just sound loud and not very clear, im not "ear" picky at all in aspect of i need the perfect sound but i can tell when something sounds good quality or not. also if PA speakers would be to large in aspect they would sound off due to small room size compared to what there made for, not really physically.
any input i would appreciate. to give you an idea of what im looking at doing heres the components im looking at and comparing
Behringer monitor2USB, use this to go from my computer to active speakers and as my sound control and surround sound distribution
looking at these 2 choices in speakers as they both roughly same price range and size yet two different speakers, ones a Studio monitor others an active PA speaker.
Yamaha HS8 8" Powered Studio Monitor
Or
Peavey Dark Matter 112 660w Powered Speaker
i don't know if links for other sites selling stuff is aloud on this forum site is why i didn't post links, i can though if it helps.
Thanks!
How big is the room?
FWIW, it's been my own experience that PA / musical instrument speakers are great for that, but in a normal to even "largish" residential environment there are far better approaches .
As this is a DIY forum, don't be surprised to find lots of suggestions on speaker systems to build, and if looking for something self-powered, there are any number of full range plate amps - including 2.1 channels in a single package - from approx $100 US (Dayton and the like) to as much as you wanna spend - Hypex, minidsp, etc.
FWIW, it's been my own experience that PA / musical instrument speakers are great for that, but in a normal to even "largish" residential environment there are far better approaches .
As this is a DIY forum, don't be surprised to find lots of suggestions on speaker systems to build, and if looking for something self-powered, there are any number of full range plate amps - including 2.1 channels in a single package - from approx $100 US (Dayton and the like) to as much as you wanna spend - Hypex, minidsp, etc.
roughly 12x16' ground area if i was to guess with about 6ft tall walls on the side that go into a cathedral ceiling.
right now im looking at just 2 speakers to get me by because of budget and seeing how they do but eventually plan on having 4 speakers and a sub creating a 4.1 surround sound, possibly adding center speaker also. another nice thing about doing it this way IMO was i can piece together the build.
i was thinking PA speakers would be better for the reliability/durability with handling constant high volumes, my thought was i much rather be running a system at 30-40% volume and not be pushing it and have it be the loud/power i want vs having a system at 80% + and constantly pushing it hard.
yeah i know this is not as near of a DIY as some of the peoples builds on this forum but combo of seeing the PA/live speaker section, then this one and this not being a "package buy" or home theater in a box i was hoping this was ok.
i looked into building my own amp and when i went to look at speakers not finding it as easy. and i have so much DIY stuff going on at the moment i don't need another project lol. have 2 car projects and house is under remodel....help haha
right now im looking at just 2 speakers to get me by because of budget and seeing how they do but eventually plan on having 4 speakers and a sub creating a 4.1 surround sound, possibly adding center speaker also. another nice thing about doing it this way IMO was i can piece together the build.
i was thinking PA speakers would be better for the reliability/durability with handling constant high volumes, my thought was i much rather be running a system at 30-40% volume and not be pushing it and have it be the loud/power i want vs having a system at 80% + and constantly pushing it hard.
yeah i know this is not as near of a DIY as some of the peoples builds on this forum but combo of seeing the PA/live speaker section, then this one and this not being a "package buy" or home theater in a box i was hoping this was ok.
i looked into building my own amp and when i went to look at speakers not finding it as easy. and i have so much DIY stuff going on at the moment i don't need another project lol. have 2 car projects and house is under remodel....help haha
Not a huge room - have you actually measured with either an old school SPL meter (Radio Shack, etc), or with a smart phone app just how loud your "fairly loud" actually is, and for that matter the room's noise floor?
Keep in mind that sustained listening at SPLs above 90dB can dramatically increase your risk of permanent hearing damage - just ask any 60+yr rock guitarist, factory worker, or audiologist.
Keep in mind that sustained listening at SPLs above 90dB can dramatically increase your risk of permanent hearing damage - just ask any 60+yr rock guitarist, factory worker, or audiologist.
I haven't heard it but a lot of members here like the Behringer B2031A and there's some info here about modding it. I've also heard very good things about the Yamaha HS8 and HS7. I wouldn't use commercial PA speakers at home.
If you are looking at 4.1 or 5.1, you may want to look at a AV receiver (Yamaha, Denon, Marantz etc) running passive speakers (Q Acoustics etc). This would give greater long term flexibilty and better decoding options for movies.
You'd be surprised at how little power is used for normal listening levels. If you wind it right up then it's a different matter but your hearing won't last long.
If you are looking at 4.1 or 5.1, you may want to look at a AV receiver (Yamaha, Denon, Marantz etc) running passive speakers (Q Acoustics etc). This would give greater long term flexibilty and better decoding options for movies.
You'd be surprised at how little power is used for normal listening levels. If you wind it right up then it's a different matter but your hearing won't last long.
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Ive never measured anything in my house but comparing to what i have in my car (4, 6.5in Type R speakers and 2, 12s on fosgate amps) i remember at LOUD volumes i was around 120-130db i believe using a meter from work.
Yeah im not going to constantly be at 120+ dBs and be deaf in 5 years haha, and ive heard around 90 is prime listening. if i was to take a close guess i would say a constant 90-100 with the ability to go super loud with out any issues is what im going for.
im hoping i can word this so it makes sense but. I think what im trying to avoid having this system do is i notice ill say at medium to high levels on most systems Ive heard everything sounds well balanced, highs, mids and lows, powerful and rich. then when you start to turn it up more it gets louder but i feel like you lose some of the richness or depth and then it just gets louder with out actually sounding better, ends up sounding like just a loud tweeter with sub hits, so i something that could stay constant sounding all the way through the set up i wouldn't get that ear piercing loud and just have a well mixed and balanced loud that actually would feel louder with out being as loud. if that makes any sense lol
and for example only reason i keep referencing "really loud" is the average person ive noticed will turn up there stock car system or a TV with its built in speakers and call it loud, where to me its not loud at all and theirs no depth to it or anything. so i do understand everyone's loud can be a lot different.
im hoping im making sense to give you guys a better idea of what im trying to get out of it and why. I only reason im not replacing my z906 system with another is i feel it was great for what it is but i could tell it had a small speaker and sub sound instead of a well blended mix and just would like the next step up.
i looked at the receiver option (using new egg) when i first started looking at replacing this system and i wont say it was a bad route but i felt like i would be spending a lot more money for doing a good receiver and passive speaker build then this set up as the receiver would be nice but i would only use maybe 25-35% of its function (multiple inputs etc etc) for what i was paying for. again im new to this so that might be a bad view on it.
reason i was going for surround sound for if i watch a movie in there or for gaming, besides that music listening it doesn't have to be.
So you guys would recommend going with Studo Monitors over PAs and possibly doing a receiver build over active studio monitors?
i appreciate all the input! thanks!
Yeah im not going to constantly be at 120+ dBs and be deaf in 5 years haha, and ive heard around 90 is prime listening. if i was to take a close guess i would say a constant 90-100 with the ability to go super loud with out any issues is what im going for.
im hoping i can word this so it makes sense but. I think what im trying to avoid having this system do is i notice ill say at medium to high levels on most systems Ive heard everything sounds well balanced, highs, mids and lows, powerful and rich. then when you start to turn it up more it gets louder but i feel like you lose some of the richness or depth and then it just gets louder with out actually sounding better, ends up sounding like just a loud tweeter with sub hits, so i something that could stay constant sounding all the way through the set up i wouldn't get that ear piercing loud and just have a well mixed and balanced loud that actually would feel louder with out being as loud. if that makes any sense lol
and for example only reason i keep referencing "really loud" is the average person ive noticed will turn up there stock car system or a TV with its built in speakers and call it loud, where to me its not loud at all and theirs no depth to it or anything. so i do understand everyone's loud can be a lot different.
im hoping im making sense to give you guys a better idea of what im trying to get out of it and why. I only reason im not replacing my z906 system with another is i feel it was great for what it is but i could tell it had a small speaker and sub sound instead of a well blended mix and just would like the next step up.
i looked at the receiver option (using new egg) when i first started looking at replacing this system and i wont say it was a bad route but i felt like i would be spending a lot more money for doing a good receiver and passive speaker build then this set up as the receiver would be nice but i would only use maybe 25-35% of its function (multiple inputs etc etc) for what i was paying for. again im new to this so that might be a bad view on it.
reason i was going for surround sound for if i watch a movie in there or for gaming, besides that music listening it doesn't have to be.
So you guys would recommend going with Studo Monitors over PAs and possibly doing a receiver build over active studio monitors?
i appreciate all the input! thanks!
Perhaps a 12” coaxial/compression build could be up op’s street box does not have to be anything special as he has other projects but later may build some nice ones
Eminence beta etc ??
Something for the op to read
Using coaxial products for DIY monitors and home hi-fi applications | Eminence Speaker
Eminence beta etc ??
Something for the op to read
Using coaxial products for DIY monitors and home hi-fi applications | Eminence Speaker
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im not against putting together my own speakers if thats going to be a better choice, i have time for that, i just don't have the time to re-learn/learn new electronics and circuits putting together some 5:1 complicated amp, sounds cool but just cant atm. doing some carpentry and basic wiring i can handle haha.
so if i did a speaker box build (was looking around at parts-express) it would be based of running a powered receiver to passive home built speakers?
so if i did a speaker box build (was looking around at parts-express) it would be based of running a powered receiver to passive home built speakers?
If you want speakers that can get loud. These do. They have compression drivers. They even sell flat packs so it is mainly assembling of speakers.
DIY SOUND GROUP
DIY SOUND GROUP
To answer one of the questions in #6 above, I'd personally suggest going for a "proper" home theatre surround receiver. Any of the current units worth their salt will easily accept almost any format of input you can drum up, some with Chromecast, Airplay, blah blah, built in. What I particularly like about them is the flexibility of speaker configurations and ease of calibration / set up via on screen menus and included microphone - it's almost as if they're designed to be as easy to use as possible.
This was my first thought also, specifically this one: Denovo Audio Intrusive 1899
....or this one with a separate multiple woofer system for more flexible speaker/sub placement:
Denovo Audio Intrusive 1899
GM
+1 as long as there's a high efficiency speaker system and can safely/cleanly handle nominal 4 ohm loads since most I scoped out the other year are pretty wimpy in the power dept..
GM
Well, again I refer to the room size cited - although with a sloped cathedral roof that could have lots of acoustical advantages the calculation of room cubic volume can be a bit more involved, it’s still not a huge space. Granted, the rated power specs on most receivers should be detuned- by what 20%? - but with the multiple number of channels usually invoked in a surround system, and the fact that the heavy lifting of bass can be filtered to the separately powered LFE channel as high as 120Hz or so, the load on power supply might not be so horrible.
My room is approx 340sq ft, moderately damped with plush upholstery, and I don’t listen particularly loud - no higher than 90dB average. Over the past 10 or so years have never managed to shut down either my former Denon or current Onkyo receiver
My room is approx 340sq ft, moderately damped with plush upholstery, and I don’t listen particularly loud - no higher than 90dB average. Over the past 10 or so years have never managed to shut down either my former Denon or current Onkyo receiver
was actually looking at the DIY sound group speakers earlier, the coablt - 8, for the woofer size mainly, and was going to ask about those depending on how this thread went, the down side i see is i would have to get a decent receiver to match them though, which isnt bad, just something i have to weigh in and have to look into also.
as far as the Intrusive 1899s go, those seem badass but i would honestly like to ask, what is the difference between them, a speaker that isnt even a speaker yet thats almost $1000, to a PA speaker thats a 1/4-1/3 of the price , Peavey 215s for example, not arguing just honestly dont know minus i do know that there is a difference.
ive kinda always counted on any rating for anything (be car parts or what ever) to always only be 80% efficient for what there rated for, in combo of anything from flaws with rest of system, that batch of what ever or the combination of the whole set up. that being said ive heard good things about Onkyo receivers so its good to hear more positives about them.
i know the room im working with isnt exactly prime for the best system, just what i have to work with haha, love to go all out in my living room (which may happen one day)but thats what im working with now.
as far as the Intrusive 1899s go, those seem badass but i would honestly like to ask, what is the difference between them, a speaker that isnt even a speaker yet thats almost $1000, to a PA speaker thats a 1/4-1/3 of the price , Peavey 215s for example, not arguing just honestly dont know minus i do know that there is a difference.
ive kinda always counted on any rating for anything (be car parts or what ever) to always only be 80% efficient for what there rated for, in combo of anything from flaws with rest of system, that batch of what ever or the combination of the whole set up. that being said ive heard good things about Onkyo receivers so its good to hear more positives about them.
i know the room im working with isnt exactly prime for the best system, just what i have to work with haha, love to go all out in my living room (which may happen one day)but thats what im working with now.
If worried about the speaker impedance load - and yet again with reference to the room size - wouldn't something like a front row of the 8ohm 95dB HTM10s, and whatever sub(s) you think you'd need, be sufficient? And to as close to tonally consistent as possible, the Volt 6 or 8s for surrounds?
PA speakers might possibly be more sensitive / "efficient" , able to handle more abuse, and cost less, but perhaps not have the low end bandwidth or midrange smoothness and resolution required for home theater application?
PA speakers might possibly be more sensitive / "efficient" , able to handle more abuse, and cost less, but perhaps not have the low end bandwidth or midrange smoothness and resolution required for home theater application?
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My 2₵ worth...
There are plenty of possibilities. But as others have pointed out, you won't be using 120 dB SPL at your listening position. If you were, a single exposure to that for 7 secs can permanently damage your hearing.
Something that could work for you is a Unity horn with 3 or more midrange drivers, a compression driver, and a 18" PA/instrument driver (Dayton, Eminence, etc). Combined in a 3 ft³ box that is well constructed, can get you very loud with relatively low power. Something of the order of 100 dB@1W@1m. A friend built a pair and loves them, driving them with good 20 W/ch amplifiers and passive X-overs. The key to that phrase is good amplification and good components in the crossovers.
There are multiple great DIY designs out there if wanting a monitor style speaker system, including good single driver types. Just know that as size is reduced (driver and enclosure size), so too are the power requirements increased. And there are "watts" and then there are "WATTS". I'd rather have a great 20 W/ch amp that a terrible 100 W/ch any day.
There are plenty of possibilities. But as others have pointed out, you won't be using 120 dB SPL at your listening position. If you were, a single exposure to that for 7 secs can permanently damage your hearing.
Something that could work for you is a Unity horn with 3 or more midrange drivers, a compression driver, and a 18" PA/instrument driver (Dayton, Eminence, etc). Combined in a 3 ft³ box that is well constructed, can get you very loud with relatively low power. Something of the order of 100 dB@1W@1m. A friend built a pair and loves them, driving them with good 20 W/ch amplifiers and passive X-overs. The key to that phrase is good amplification and good components in the crossovers.
There are multiple great DIY designs out there if wanting a monitor style speaker system, including good single driver types. Just know that as size is reduced (driver and enclosure size), so too are the power requirements increased. And there are "watts" and then there are "WATTS". I'd rather have a great 20 W/ch amp that a terrible 100 W/ch any day.
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Logitech gear is nice for the plug-and-play ability but not amazing otherwise.
How is it 'starting to die'?
Kinda the other way around
Flat is a good thing, particularly for long listening sessions.I think you should simply go to a shop that sells instruments and PA gear and try some out - you'll get an idea of what approximate size and budget is needed to surpass your existing gear.
Note that you can do an incremental upgrade. e.g. you could buy a pair of large passive speakers (or build a kit), and hook them up to your existing Logitech gear - you don't need to buy everything at once.
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