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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is there such a thing as too big?
Is there such a thing as too big?
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Old 12th June 2018, 06:13 AM   #1
Coelacanth is offline Coelacanth  New Zealand
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Default Is there such a thing as too big?

I have been considering building a pair of Klipsch Jubilee clones - but a couple of sneaky individuals here and elsewhere have convinced me to go all out and build Klipsch MWM stacks instead. Parts will be ordered on Friday..... I even managed to find an excellent local source of BB ply at a very reasonable price.

So I will end up with a total of four 15" drivers in big horns, plus the two Klipsch K402 horns on top. I'm not looking to drive these to foolish levels. Amps will probably be SET or Class A DIY. With circa 108db sensitivity, I wont need much....

But it dawned on me today to ask some opinions about my room size. The wall the speakers will corner into is 7m long, with a 2.7m ceiling height. The side walls are 6m long, then they meet some 1.5m returns (remains of an old wall now removed). The space behind the returns is another 6m x 6m, with open plan kitchen extending out. Lets call it a space greater than 6x12x2.7.

The k402 will be centered at about 1.1m height. I will have some flexibilty in terms of spread and toe angle with the big bins. I reckon I could sit about 4m from the speakers for critical listening, given that they extend over 1m into the room. Often the system will just be playing while we live in the space.

I know the MWM are designed for huge spaces / outdoors. Does anyone see any fundamental issue with my plan based on the space described? Thanks.

Last edited by Coelacanth; 12th June 2018 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 12th June 2018, 06:38 AM   #2
Tweet is offline Tweet  Australia
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You must not be under the WAF curse to get away with that pursuit.


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Old 12th June 2018, 07:02 AM   #3
Coelacanth is offline Coelacanth  New Zealand
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I have a magnificent partner who lets me own large things... yes :-). Recent purchases include a 2-group commercial lever espresso machine, and chainsaw that weighs more than she does... lets just say I know how to sell benefits......
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Old 12th June 2018, 07:10 AM   #4
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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I'd consider the available low-frequency extension with these horns vs direct radiators in the bass. High efficiency is nice, but wide bandwidth is more useful IMHO.

Chris
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Old 12th June 2018, 07:27 AM   #5
Coelacanth is offline Coelacanth  New Zealand
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Thanks Chris - good point. I will be using Crites woofers, which I understand to be fairly similar to the old K33. From what I can gather, these should provide extension below what the more recent (K43) drivers offer in these bins. I expect they should approach the Khorn 35hz mark. But that remains to be seen.

I'm no crossover designer and I was hoping to avoid multiple amplifiers and active crossovers, so I am a little limited coming up with reflex bins to mate up to the K402. Bob Crites is doing the hard yards for me with the crossovers - and he has high praise for the MWM bins. I can also use these outside which is a nice feature over summer.

If there is not likely to be any room related issues, I'm comfy with the MWMs, but if you have an alternative that is smaller footprint with better performance on most fronts, I would consider it.
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Old 12th June 2018, 11:49 AM   #6
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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I'd expect a large bass reflex to get considerably lower than 35Hz, but efficiency will drop. You could probably get another octave of extension, and with 2x15" per side, efficiency could still approach 100dB@1w.

It's all a compromise. If you're happy with just about getting to 35Hz, then carry right on. I, personally, am happy to throw a bit of power around if it means I get a useful improvement in low-frequency extension. Personal choice.

You're on the road to a really nice system, either way.

Chris
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Old 12th June 2018, 10:48 PM   #7
Coytee is offline Coytee
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You might consider taking some kind of paper (as in a roll of paper) and make a template so you can put it on the floor and get a real-world idea of how they will impose into the room.

I don't remember the size but they are approximately six feet, 2-meters wide (perhaps a bit wider....here is a picture of one in my eight foot wide bucket.

None the less... they do not go to a "point" in the back so you will have some dead space back there. Meaning, they will take up the entire corner out to a certain distance (because of the width) but, they won't look that "deep" because they're truncated.

I don't know if that makes much sense... so cutting a template will give you a real world idea of their intrusion into the room.

For home use, the K33 should be fine. (If I understand Bob's story correctly, he called the manufacturer, said he wanted to buy say, 50 K33's and was told those are exclusive to Klipsch.... so, he calls them back and said "I want to order 50 "Crites" drivers and I want their TS parameters to be.... and proceeded to give them the exact values of the K33's so the stamped frame should be an exact K33 with his name on them (unless he's changed something in the meantime)

For indoor use, it will be WAY more than enough. For outdoor use, it will probably be enough (it was for us doing a movie and a DVD concert outdoors) but if you play them outdoors, you might consider going conservative on the fuse so that your "K33" doesn't turn into a fuse protector instead of the other way around!!

Last, I'd urge you to build some handles into those darn things. The doubles I have are slippery little devils and very awkward to carry around. The singles I had (sold them) hand handles and that made them MUCH easier to move.
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Old 12th June 2018, 10:54 PM   #8
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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Is there such a thing as too big?
can a speaker be too big ? - don't let Cal see you asking that question
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Old 12th June 2018, 11:18 PM   #9
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelacanth View Post
So I will end up with a total of four 15" drivers in big horns.......

But it dawned on me today to ask some opinions about my room size.
Been there, done that for several decades until I was forced to sell off some stuff to keep my house, winding up with just my two dual 15" 'subs' using the same Altec 515B drivers like in the ~35 Hz corner horns and frankly, while I miss some of the super high efficiency perks; all things considered I much prefer the drivers in the large, corner loaded MLTLs, finally understanding why the great horn designer Dr. John K. Hilliard chose IB loaded dual 803 [416A] for his seemingly large, open, yet still acoustically fairly small home system:

https://ia902502.us.archive.org/Book...46266&rotate=0

https://ia902502.us.archive.org/Book...46266&rotate=0


GM
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Old 12th June 2018, 11:44 PM   #10
Coelacanth is offline Coelacanth  New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM View Post
Been there, done that for several decades until I was forced to sell off some stuff to keep my house, winding up with just my two dual 15" 'subs' using the same Altec 515B drivers like in the ~35 Hz corner horns and frankly, while I miss some of the super high efficiency perks; all things considered I much prefer the drivers in the large, corner loaded MLTLs, finally understanding why the great horn designer Dr. John K. Hilliard chose IB loaded dual 803 [416A] for his seemingly large, open, yet still acoustically fairly small home system:
GM
GM.. I will hopefully be able to re-use all the gear to do MLTLs if space eventually dictates (except the XOs of course). I always keep your words in the back of my mind.... Thanks.
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