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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Klipsch Jubilee Clone Build factfinding mission.
Klipsch Jubilee Clone Build factfinding mission.
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Old 16th May 2018, 10:48 PM   #1
Coelacanth is offline Coelacanth  New Zealand
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Default Klipsch Jubilee Clone Build factfinding mission.

Hi all.

Time for the next speaker project.

I have had Khorns and more recently Altec 19's. I want to combine the best of both worlds and build a 2-Way Jubilee-like speaker.

Speaking with ALK Engineering - they are happy to provide crossovers, and has recommended Eminence bass drivers and B&C HF units. I am aware of comparable HF units that should work, but I wonder if anyone would like to recommend alternatives to the Eminence 12" units. (I had Eminence drivers in the KHorns and was never entirely sold on them... Happy to be schooled)

Not sure what HF horn I will use, but that will sort itself out.

Plans. I need plans. I have seen a few different drawings kicking around the net - I wonder if there has been a consensus on a design which is close to the Klipsch design? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

I appreciate that this will have been covered somewhat in the past, and I have trawled through a lot of information here and elsewhere. Assistance from those who have build Jubilee clones would be MUCH appreciated.

Many thanks.
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Old 17th May 2018, 06:09 AM   #2
kodomo is offline kodomo  Turkey
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If you can find the exact plans to a k-402, please share them! I want to build that horn too
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Old 17th May 2018, 06:25 AM   #3
Coelacanth is offline Coelacanth  New Zealand
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Ha yes I believe they are Grail Plans.... not quite sure what I will do there...... might check the Visa balance and put a call through to Klipsch.

Anyone out there a/b'd a pair of Jubs and A19's? (Or had enough experience with both to tell me I'm crazy or otherwise?)
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Old 17th May 2018, 07:19 AM   #4
GM is offline GM  United States
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Apples n' oranges comparison...........

Dunno, these are the only ones I've seen...........

Sorry, you do not have permission for that!

Sorry, you do not have permission for that!


..........except this partial you can compare with which includes numerous driver options:

Need some advice for bass section in diy horn setup

GM
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:38 AM   #5
Coytee is offline Coytee
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I don't know much about the various drivers....but... I have owned a pair of Jubilee's for something like 12 years now... so have some experience with them.

My 2-cents.... the 'secret sauce' in the speaker is the K402 horn. That horn sounds fantastic sitting on top of a LaScala bass bin, Jubilee, MWM single or double or some of the DR bass bins they have using two or four 15" drivers.

I'd personally rather have the K402 on top of a LaScala bass bin than something other, on top of a Jubilee bass bin.

I don't know how it works out with a passive.... my understanding is the K402 (and it's little brother K510) are some kind of constant coverage horns. As such, they need some HF boost to balance them out. With an active, just plug in the numbers. I don't know how you can do that with a passive. I'm sure someone does, just trying to bring it to your attention.

I use an active, never used a passive with them.
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Old 17th May 2018, 10:28 AM   #6
Coelacanth is offline Coelacanth  New Zealand
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Thank you for your response. I suspect you are right about the K402.

I know nothing about active crossovers. Might be time to start learning.
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Old 17th May 2018, 01:09 PM   #7
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelacanth View Post
I know nothing about active crossovers. Might be time to start learning.
See Active Bi-Amping/Tri-Amping FAQ - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community

A lot of people seem to hung up on building the bass bin part, but as Coytee (Richard) has said, the real performing part of the Jubilee is actually the K-402 with a low-chatter 2" compression driver. This is the part that provides the "Jubilee sound". The bass bin...well, not as much, but it's still important. The K-402 assemblies are available from Klipsch with compression drivers attached for about $1.2k(US) each. If you wish to make them out of something like wood, I strongly recommend that you have a real K-402 on hand to use as a pattern, otherwise you're likely not going get the real McCoy in terms of polar coverage (vertical/horizontal).

The Jubilee bass bin is a "W" section design like the Khorn, La Scala, and Belle bass bins, which means it has two mouths. The problem with that is that the two (truncated) horn mouths begin to interact with each other above 200 Hz, i.e., two-source interference--like a dual slit wavefront experiment that is commonly seen in physics demonstrations, thus producing extremely narrow horizontal polar coverage above that frequency. This has implications in midbass performance that are audible.

The La Scala is the only one of the four designs that doesn't do this--because the two mouths are rejoined at the front of the bass bin mouths, thus avoiding the two source interference issue. You could make DIY La Scala bass bins, but they really cut off about an octave and a half too high--about 100 Hz (without boundary gain). The key is the rejoining of the mouths.

Click the image to open in full size.

If you designed a longer path length folded horn--like half a Jubilee bass bin or a nautilus/snail/spiral design. (also here and here)--you'd avoid the dual mouth "W" section problem.

Click the image to open in full size.

Presently, I'd recommend Faital Pro HF200 series 2" compression drivers for the K-402s in a two-way configuration (like the Klipsch Jubilee) if you can get them at a reasonable price. I'd avoid P.Audio, B&C and the like because of the diaphragm chattering issue above 10 kHz. Note that almost any beryllium diaphragm 2" throat driver will sound the best, followed by a well EQed and dialed in BMS 4592ND (the dual diaphragm version), then closely followed by the Faital Pros, then other compression drivers, in my experience.

I don't personally recommend a 3-way design since the time alignment requirement is on the order of 1 cm, something that will go in and out of alignment simply by sitting or standing up relative to a K-402 horn on top of a bass bin using a separate tweeter due to the vertical distance between the two horn axes (...yes, it really does this).

Click the image to open in full size.

If you're into Synergy horns™ (i.e., multiple entry horns--MEHs), then this design will avoid the need for the bass bins by using the K-402 to its full potential: A K-402-Based Full-Range Multiple-Entry Horn - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community

Click the image to open in full size.

Chris

Last edited by Cask05; 17th May 2018 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 17th May 2018, 05:20 PM   #8
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Google: K-402 wood

K-402 in wood!

klipsch 402 wood horn - Google Search
========
There are only rough cut plans for the Jubilee bass horn on the web to avoid any legal issues.

Klipsch uses their K31 speaker in Jubliee
DIY'ers sometimes use
1) $127 Eminence Kappa_Pro_12A
2) $120 Crites CW1228
3) $250 GPA-414-8B
Attached Images
File Type: jpg klipsch K-402 horn.jpg (61.4 KB, 332 views)
File Type: jpg klipsch K-402 speaker.jpg (84.2 KB, 76 views)
File Type: gif Jub_rough cut.gif (115.3 KB, 88 views)

Last edited by LineSource; 17th May 2018 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:59 PM   #9
jpak is offline jpak  United States
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I will have to third or fourth that the magic in the Jubilee is the K-402. It remains the only horn system I have heard that completely impressed me; wholly point source image with no discontinuities that I'm sensitive to from multiple horn systems.

I have lurked the Klipsch forum and from what I have been able to piece together from Roy there are some "tricks" to the K-402 that may not be clonable without having the real thing side by side. I would personally much rather have one in wood as the finish on the commercial version (even new) looks like it was built for PA installation with scrapes, paint missing, etc. Not very appealing considering how expensive they are.
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Old 17th May 2018, 10:14 PM   #10
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Push-Pull-Slot-Loaded woofers

Has anyone used the K-402 horn with a Push-Pull-Slot-Loaded woofer?
Not as corner-friendly as the Jubilee. Much easier construction.
PPSL woofers have a good Directivity Index(DI), which produces a better integration to a midrange horn than a basic bass reflex ported woofer.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PPSL dual 15in.jpg (75.4 KB, 100 views)
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