18W, 12M and R3004 active 3-Way

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Yes i am still going to get the Fusion amps as the first thing and then do some testing with my current speakers with different volumes and so on.

I am also planing on doing it stepwhise. Maybe i don't even feel the need for a sub (i probably do.. :p) but will def. try just the speakers first.

Exactly they are very low profile! I have seen many under couch subs, thequestion is if they are any good or driven by desperate people like me hwo wan'ts a sub but have nowhere to put it..

The problem with my current sub is that it's cabinet is very undersized (didn't think about what i was doing back then..) so my undersized front speakers actually have a lower f3 according to sims. That also explains why i never really liked it so much. I felt that it either didnt doo anything or got really boomy (guess that was when i turned it up way higher than the main speakers..

I highly doubt it. I am moving next month and will have a little less space than here. and here the sub is annoying.. But maybe with those flat ones. They require tiny cabs so they don't take much space. Is it because you don't like the downfiring type or is it the locked location under the couch?
 
Is it because you don't like the downfiring type or is it the locked location under the couch?

I have nothing against downfiring subs, I just don't know a lot about them. My ears give me some problems these days and they don't like a lot of LF energy so I haven't used a sub in a long time so I'm not really that knowledgeable on them.

But it's the fixed location that isn't optimum. Look into multiple sub placement if you're interested - it's a way to mitigate the peaks and troughs in the LF response that every room causes. But most people have to deal with some sort of less than optimal compromises, so if under the couch is the best option then so be it. Maybe start another thread on those SB's in a downfiring application to get a little more info?

I wonder though if maybe 1 would be enough? Might save you a little money. Especially if you are in an apartment-like situation. I used to love the LF as much as anybody else but I think subs should actually be outlawed in apartments - they are just so inconsiderate of your neighbors.
 
#jReave - Fair enough! Annoying with you ears :(

I will start with the speakers alone. Then I will see if I feel the need of a sub. If I do then I at least have a plan for it and will start a thread on that if I get to that :)
The current idea I have about the SUB is also to build one with one driver and one FA251 (1 channel 250W fusion amp). If that is not enough then I could build one more exactly like the first and they could still both fit comfortably under my couch :)

I completely agree that Sub's and apartments are a bad combination! But a sub or a full range floor stander is I guess equally annoying for the neighbors.?
That being said my new apartment is the entire ground floor of a small house so there will be no one below me and only one old couple above. As much as I love music I rarely listen to loud music for this exact reason (I too hate neighbors playing loud music 24/7). I usually only crank it up if I knew the house is empty except for me and occasionally for a single song :)

I did say my max SPL was around those 80dB but usually I am waaay below that (60 ish) ;)




Thanks to all of you for all the great inputs! It have helped me a lot and did also cause a drastic change from vented to sealed. I also feel like i know a bit more than before :p

Now as I said, this is going to be my winter project so I guess this thread is going to die out for now. However, I will return and bring it back to life once I start building!

Adios until then ;)
 
Your Hypex DSP_amps make you "Lord of the Speakers"
-couple ideas-

===ADD MIDRANGE: T-M-W in Avalon style truncated pyramid cabinet
-Purchase a 4" - 5" midrange. Put in sealed tapered(reduced resonance) volume with absorption material.
----Satori MR13P-4 or ScanSpeak 12MU-4
-Put your 18W in a sealed 30l volume and DSP bass boost down to -F3=25Hz

===ALL NEW SB_Acoustics "BIG SOUND" path. TM--(side-side)WW Audio Physic Kronos style cabinet.
Kronos Kone $365-each
SB26STCN-4 $33
6” Satori MR16P-4 $148
8'' SB23NRXS45-8 2x $92
---two side-side SB23 8" woofers in common 80liter sealed volume
---DSP bass boost down to -F3=25Hz
==========
Hypex DSP_Functions
Volume Control
Subout Control
Invert filter functions
Delay (per channel)
Graph smoothing
Wide range of Biquad filter setups
View sum of filters
 

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#LineSource - I am currently going for the Add midrange version :)
A bas boost of f3 @ 25 Hz wont that mean very low SPL ?
I think earlier in this thread it was pointed out that in a sealed cabinet the 18W can deliver my desired SPL down to around 40 Hz. Or are you including room gain?
 
DannerD3H, Have you read a few articles on sound quality from sealed woofers vs. ported woofers?

-Bass from sealed woofers has tighter transients, lower distortion, more linear SPL/watt, no port noise.
-You could put your good passive crossover speakers in the bedroom and build powerful DSP livingroom speakers for $375-each in SB_Acoustic drivers.
-DSP Dual sealed 8" woofer designs will produce powerful -F3=25Hz tight-transient bass in a 60-80l sealed volume box.
---Dual front or side 8" woofers in low diffraction baffles. Balance height vs. depth to fit your room. Tall speakers are popular
---DSP cannot fix baffle edge distortion
 
#LineSource - Thanks for your inputs, but have you read this full thread or just the first post?


The plan is no longer to make ported cabinets. I am going for a 22-25l sealed woofer cabinet and a 2,5l aperiodic heavily stuffed mid cabinet. I am very attracted by the benefits of the sealed cabinet and it seems the DSP eleminates its major draw backs.



There is no way i am gonna build 80L speakers for my livingroom at the moment..
 
LineSource: Really like you simple and down to earth ideas. It is good inspiration!

DannerD3H: You should also consider making the baffle slanted. In my experience this is better than a flat baffle. 1) Better bass 2) A midrange driver has better performance and sound listened to slightly off axis (the beaming of a driver will be most prominent on axis, hence better to listen off axis.)
 
The problem is that a high starting Qtc and attendant transient- and frequency response realities are effectively impossible to “correct” in the equalization algorithm. More flexibility in the DSP does not overcome these issues, hence my “no free lunch” comment.
Doesn't a Linkwitz Transform address this (with the trade-off of increased wattage)? Seems like a good compromise when you want a small box & need only 20W to hit desired SPL.
 
Hello People!

Time for a brief resurrection of this thread!

Yesterday i ordered one FA123, a remote-kit, a USB to S/PDIF converter, and all necessary cables. This means I am probably going to use September to make the tests suggested by you guys here in this thread. In particular with regards to volume.
My old speakers have a woofer volume of 21L. Which should be big enough for one 18W sealed (I know its way to small in the current ported setup..).
So my plan is:
* Replace the current passive crossover with the FA123. This way i will hopefully learn to use HFD, and my MiniDSP Umik.
* Block the port of the cabinet and try to make them play well in the full 21L.
*Decrease the volume to 15L (which is my current design) and 10L (just for my own learning). To see how small i can make my new speakers before I can hear it.





So i of course also have some questions.. Again! :p The first one is:
What would you guys use to decrease the volume of my old cabinets? I guess anything that is solid would work? But any suggestions would be great!
 
Side note!

During the last two months i have been thinking a lot about driver choices and cabinet size. I finally came to the conclusion of making a small 20L speaker with one 18W as woofer and SB's 4" SB12MNRX25-4 as my mid-range and a future sub. I chose the mid-range driver, because on paper it looks amazing! And it costs a fraction of the 12M and 12MU. So i thought it would be a good start for my journey into 3-way speakers. I went with the single 18W because of cost and mostly cabinet size.

Howeeeeeveeeer....
Last month I got an offer I simply could not resist. I could get 2 unused 3 months old 18W with receipt and 2 older12M where only one has been used for measurements and the other was unused.... All 4 at the price of two new 18W!!!! :eek:
So of course I took the bait.. :eek:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

:D:D

This means the design once again returned to two 18W and the 12M as mid. I have done simulations with Unibox which suggest 30L with heavy stuffing should be just fine with a Qtc of 0.72. So currently this is my design.

So i now have all the drivers i need to build the speaker. I am soon gonna decide the final design based on my tests with the old cabinets. Then the plan is to start cabinet building in October!


PS: I will post some pictures of the current design tonight!
 
I thought i did the exact same when i copied the links for the new images as i did with all the earlier photos, but it appears they are not visible to you guys, right?

I can never seem to attach pictures in forums... What am i doing wrong?
I use google photos.
I open the image.
Copy the link.

paste it here with the "insert image" function.

What is the correct way of doing it!?!? :(
 
Finally got hold of a FA123, a remote kit and remote!!
2018-08-23 20.52.18 | mde | DannerD3H | Flickr


I spent the whole day today playing around with it. I removed the old crossover from my old speakers and connected the FA123 instead. I just cut the wires for the crossover and installed some good connectors. This way i can easily install the old filter and use them as usual when not playing around :p
IMG_20180825_112135 | dav | DannerD3H | Flickr
IMG_20180825_112123 | dav | DannerD3H | Flickr


My measurments may be questionable as i don't have a microphone stand and have used a cardboard box to raise the mic for nearfield and 1 m measurmets. I also did some (almost) listening possition measurments from my couch
IMG_20180825_114014 | dav | DannerD3H | Flickr


Anyway, with the expertise and assistance from Rocky i managed to build a pretty decent and simple crossover in HFD. It uses Linkwitz-Riley 4th order for both tweeter and woofer at 2500 Hz. I added some shelfs to compensate for driver behaviour and baffle-step. This is the final filter in HFD. The graphs are based on 1m measurments from REW.
HFD filter til gamle to-vejs | DannerD3H | Flickr


Still not perfect, but it sounds better than the old analog crossover!


Now the next step will be to block the port and gradually reduce the box volume to my target volume. Then i will have to see if it is okay or not.


And as i completely forgot here are some pictures of the current design at 30 ish l actual volume.
https://flic.kr/p/293PDme
https://flic.kr/p/29ku9GL
https://flic.kr/p/293PEp6


EDIT: I seriously don't know what is wrong with me and images suddenly.. I tried google photos (which worked in the begining) and flickr..
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 
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