Looking to do my first speaker build but not ready for the design process so looking for a kit. I really like Jeff Bagby's Kairos and I've looked at other kits but just want to be sure that I haven't missed anything interesting. The Kairos kit is about 6 years old now so I have to imagine there some newer kits out there. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.
Firstly I wouldn't let the age of a design put you off. That would be a big mistake.
I'd be very surprised If Tony Gee Plutone didn't sound better than the Kairos.
Another design to consider Is Paul Carmody Carrera. It uses state of the art drivers and Paul Is a well respected designer.
If you like to listen at lower volumes then the Plutone would be my choice (Not that It won't sound at least as good as the others at high volume).
I'd be very surprised If Tony Gee Plutone didn't sound better than the Kairos.
Another design to consider Is Paul Carmody Carrera. It uses state of the art drivers and Paul Is a well respected designer.
If you like to listen at lower volumes then the Plutone would be my choice (Not that It won't sound at least as good as the others at high volume).
I've looked at all those options. The Plutone is sweet but at least twice as expensive as Kairos if not more. Same goes for the Klang. Would like to keep it under $1000 USA. The Carrera is about the same price so if anyone can comment on differences that would be useful. I'm definitely not saying that the Kairos is outdated, just want to see what else is out there.
On paper, the Carrera uses better woofer and probably better tweeter as well although I cannot comment on the actual sound since personally I have not heard them. At least in theory, the Kairos has a more severe slanted baffle which in my opinion can be difficult to integrate the woofer and tweeter and could be tricky in term of having a listening sweet spot. The Carrera is a more conventional design which has a 2nd order on the woofer and 3rd order on the tweeter. But both are using asymmetric xover design to align the woofer and tweeter phase. In the case of the Kairos, since he does not have any xover published, my guess is it uses first order on the woofer and 2nd order on the tweeter. Asymmetric xover is not ideal but it's compromise.
In my opinion, if you're going to go to the trouble of having slanted baffle, why not adjust so that you can use 2nd order on both woofer and tweeter.
Looking at the freq. response, I think the Carrera probably will have a more warmer sounding vs. the Kairos which is tuned to have a slightly flatter freq. response. I guess it depends on whether one's preference is toward a warm or neutral sound.
Personally, I think the Carrera is a safer design whereas the Kairos is a bit riskier although it may work out for the better. That is the problem with choosing an online design without having listening to them first. With the case of the Kairos, he does not even publish the xover so it's kind of a blind trust.
I would recommend looking at some of Troels designs but just be careful that his designs can sometimes sound a bit overly warm. Most of Troels design uses LR2 xover which is more preferable over asymmetric xover of the Carrera and Kairos. Personally knowing what I know, I would not go with either designs and maybe do a bit more research to find a better alternative.
In my opinion, if you're going to go to the trouble of having slanted baffle, why not adjust so that you can use 2nd order on both woofer and tweeter.
Looking at the freq. response, I think the Carrera probably will have a more warmer sounding vs. the Kairos which is tuned to have a slightly flatter freq. response. I guess it depends on whether one's preference is toward a warm or neutral sound.
Personally, I think the Carrera is a safer design whereas the Kairos is a bit riskier although it may work out for the better. That is the problem with choosing an online design without having listening to them first. With the case of the Kairos, he does not even publish the xover so it's kind of a blind trust.
I would recommend looking at some of Troels designs but just be careful that his designs can sometimes sound a bit overly warm. Most of Troels design uses LR2 xover which is more preferable over asymmetric xover of the Carrera and Kairos. Personally knowing what I know, I would not go with either designs and maybe do a bit more research to find a better alternative.
Anniversario kit — Selah Audio
..and while not a "kit" for a practical US order, the Elsinore can be built based on the info. on the website, only requiring you to order the waveguides from Joe at a very reasonable price:
Elsinore Speakers DIY
..and while not a "kit" for a practical US order, the Elsinore can be built based on the info. on the website, only requiring you to order the waveguides from Joe at a very reasonable price:
Elsinore Speakers DIY
I looked at the published frequency response which I posted below and I think I heard a little bit of ringing in my ears. But joking aside, I can't help but thinking these will be forward with emphasis in sibilance. Maybe they will sound nice on perfect recordings, but on less than perfect recordings I just have a feeling the sound could be fatigue.
Attachments
..it largely depends on the stand and the resulting vertical off-axis AND pressure drop from floor bounce (and where it occurs in freq. as a result).
In otherwords: the stand should be short (vertically) - like less than a foot and a half off the floor (..though relative to listener distance).
It should also be listened to off-axis horizontally (aimed "straight ahead", or alternativly with exagerated "toe-in" - "crossing" before the listener).
..I should also note that the particular ribbon on it is one of the best made regardless of price.
(..between all of the above though, I'd still go with the Elsinor UNLESS I had on or more subwoofers to use with the speakers.. and even then there are substantive reasons to choose the Elsinore.)
In otherwords: the stand should be short (vertically) - like less than a foot and a half off the floor (..though relative to listener distance).
It should also be listened to off-axis horizontally (aimed "straight ahead", or alternativly with exagerated "toe-in" - "crossing" before the listener).
..I should also note that the particular ribbon on it is one of the best made regardless of price.
(..between all of the above though, I'd still go with the Elsinor UNLESS I had on or more subwoofers to use with the speakers.. and even then there are substantive reasons to choose the Elsinore.)
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I understand what you said. Basically we need to get more bass enforcement or bass gain at the same time reducing the high frequency by listening a bit off axis. But still, the freq. response does favor high frequency especially a around 5khz and above where sibilance is present. Also the 2khz - 3khz seems a bit elevated for my taste.
But I still don't think one should play around with position too much as a way adjust the sound. I think a good pair of speakers shouldn't be too fussy with position.
But I still don't think one should play around with position too much as a way adjust the sound. I think a good pair of speakers shouldn't be too fussy with position.
If I wanted floorstanders and wasn't Into designing my own, they'd probably be my top choice too.
..you'd be purchasing 8 of those SB drivers and you should expect a discount - like free shipping.
So $464 for the SB drivers and $152 for the tweeters. (..I'm assuming Madisound here.)
+ waveguides.
+ crossover parts (..the large iron-core inductors will cost about $80 for the pair, I'd also look to nicer 1.8uf cap for the tweeters, though the same is true for the Kairos upgrade IMO).
ERSE Super Q 20mH 16 AWG 500W Inductor Crossover Coil
Audyn True Copper Cap 1.8uF 630V Copper Foil Capacitor
vs. $764 parts-upgrade for the Kairos. (..which doesn't have the same sort of impedance flattening filter (expensive inductor) that the Elsinore has.)
Yeah, the Elsinore is more expensive.. +/-30% more, but almost certainly worth it.
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I must have looked too quickly at the elsinore project page, thought it said the kit was $2700, will recheck that, thanks.
That's their kit from Australia. ..in the US you wouldn't purchase that, just the waveguides from them and source your parts here in the US.
Note: even if you don't want to wire (crimp or solder) the components together for the crossover (aka assembled crossovers) , Madisound has that service for a relativly modest fee, though you'd have to order all the crossover parts from them.
Steel Laminate 20.0 mH 15 AWG Inductors
ClarityCap 0.10 mfd MR Range Polypropylene Caps
+
ClarityCap 0.82 mfd MR Range Polypropylene Caps
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Most 2-way monitors have efficiency of around 82 - 83db in free space because of bsc. The Satori may have at most 85db in free space but that is a bit optimistic - probably most likely 84db. If you're willing to place your monitor right up against the wall then you may get and extra 3db due to room gain but that is probably not an ideal listening position.
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