Personally I would buy the KEF or do something with the Satori drivers. The Satori is probably the best DIY driver in existence today. Wilson is using them in their speakers.
Did you say this will be in a 5mx5m room? I would look at two ways instead...the Bagby Kairos and Adelphos are nice Satori 2-ways.
Did you say this will be in a 5mx5m room? I would look at two ways instead...the Bagby Kairos and Adelphos are nice Satori 2-ways.
Sure, but as mentioned the Kefs are over budget, and I do like to build stuff.
Are there any floorstander speaker designs that use that Satori driver you mention that can be built for around 600-800 euros for the pair?
The thing I like about the Samuel Hq kit I have in mind right now is that it has a pretty flat frequency response and delivers solid lows.
Are there any floorstander speaker designs that use that Satori driver you mention that can be built for around 600-800 euros for the pair?
The thing I like about the Samuel Hq kit I have in mind right now is that it has a pretty flat frequency response and delivers solid lows.
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Not as a 3 way or 2.5 way or MTM. the cost of two woofers puts you over budget.
you could do a two-way and just make the cab bigger of course.
Kairos Full Kit (Pair) - Meniscus Audio
you could do a two-way and just make the cab bigger of course.
Kairos Full Kit (Pair) - Meniscus Audio
So why not buy a pair of KEF R series coaxial drivers from a shop that sells KEF speakers, add a woofer and DIY a pair of speakers?
Because I'd like them to sound good, and I'm a complete noob at actually designing speakers / crossovers.. So for diy I'm limited to building existing designs
I've considered the Omnes 3/8 speaker kit that uses a coaxial, but I think I'd like the Samuel HQ speakers better - for as much as I compared the graphs and understand them with my very limited knowledge..
(Take note that I'm limited to diy kits that are available in/near the Netherlands; importing a kit from the US would ravage my budget..)
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The Satori drivers are Indonesian. They are designed by engineers who defected from Scanspeak. They may be even cheaper in Europe than in the US.
Graphs are one thing...sound is another. Flatter is not always better. Plenty of high end speakers out there that do not measure well. Graphs don't tell you about soundstage or emotion or connection to the music.
I would not use any coaxials besides KEF. They are all far, far behind KEF technologically.
Also, personally, I do not think SEAS or Scanspeak or SB producer speakers that are necessarily better than drivers from KEF or B&W or other brands. It's just that they are easily obtained for DIY. Iam sure companies like KEF have far bigger budgets and better testing than driver-only manufactures. And they certainly have better testing and measuring capabilities than the average DIY-er. Most testing I have seen (Zaph and others) show that drivers like B&Ws kevlar midrange and KEFs midrange are extremely competitive with the best that SEAS or Scan, etc. have to have offer. Maybe better.
There is a cost savings in DIY (especially if you have the woodworking equipment already) but there is also a cost savings in buying built speakers through the manufacturer being able to buy in quantity, cheap labor in offshore production, etc. Your choice.
I know I can't build a pair of speakers that look as good as KEF R500s. That's for sure.
I believe the KEF R-series drivers are $300 or so each...but you cannot buy them without a serial # from an existing speaker.
Graphs are one thing...sound is another. Flatter is not always better. Plenty of high end speakers out there that do not measure well. Graphs don't tell you about soundstage or emotion or connection to the music.
I would not use any coaxials besides KEF. They are all far, far behind KEF technologically.
Also, personally, I do not think SEAS or Scanspeak or SB producer speakers that are necessarily better than drivers from KEF or B&W or other brands. It's just that they are easily obtained for DIY. Iam sure companies like KEF have far bigger budgets and better testing than driver-only manufactures. And they certainly have better testing and measuring capabilities than the average DIY-er. Most testing I have seen (Zaph and others) show that drivers like B&Ws kevlar midrange and KEFs midrange are extremely competitive with the best that SEAS or Scan, etc. have to have offer. Maybe better.
There is a cost savings in DIY (especially if you have the woodworking equipment already) but there is also a cost savings in buying built speakers through the manufacturer being able to buy in quantity, cheap labor in offshore production, etc. Your choice.
I know I can't build a pair of speakers that look as good as KEF R500s. That's for sure.
I believe the KEF R-series drivers are $300 or so each...but you cannot buy them without a serial # from an existing speaker.
FULL RANGE just like the KEF Q900 with two 8" woofers..... but $375 each in parts
Powerful 28Hz Bass!
Two SB_Acoustics SB23NRXC75-8 woofers ($184)
Low inductance 6" midrange SB17NRX75-4 ($58)
Dimple Dome tweeter SB29SDC-4 ($52)
Crossover parts ...etc... ($80)
You can follow the measured build with Avalon style cabinet at:
SB Acoustics 3 ways
OR
Put this design in a cabinet which mimics the $20k Award Winning Sony SS-AR1
(4cuft tuned to 28Hz with 4" diameter 7.5" long 2xradius port)
Google: SS-AR1 WhitePaper Final
A worthy "Until death do us part" Speaker
Powerful 28Hz Bass!
Two SB_Acoustics SB23NRXC75-8 woofers ($184)
Low inductance 6" midrange SB17NRX75-4 ($58)
Dimple Dome tweeter SB29SDC-4 ($52)
Crossover parts ...etc... ($80)
You can follow the measured build with Avalon style cabinet at:
SB Acoustics 3 ways
OR
Put this design in a cabinet which mimics the $20k Award Winning Sony SS-AR1
(4cuft tuned to 28Hz with 4" diameter 7.5" long 2xradius port)
Google: SS-AR1 WhitePaper Final
A worthy "Until death do us part" Speaker
Attachments
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That rather limits your choice but there are one or two around like this one. Personally I am opting for an 8" woofer in a smaller sealed cabinet which better suits my requirements.Because I'd like them to sound good, and I'm a complete noob at actually designing speakers / crossovers.. So for diy I'm limited to building existing designs
I have a cheap tweaked KEF Q100 coaxial speakers and I LOVE them. They sound much better with my mods, much better.
Amazon.com: Customer reviews: KEF Q100 Bookshelf Loudspeakers - Black Oak (Pair)
KEF Q100 for $300
You can buy them or the new KEF Q150 and add one or two subwoofers. Or the new KEF Q750 and modified the crossover and the furniture too.
I wrote about them in this Audiocircle/GR Research thread:
Free measuring and testing services
Amazon.com: Customer reviews: KEF Q100 Bookshelf Loudspeakers - Black Oak (Pair)
KEF Q100 for $300
You can buy them or the new KEF Q150 and add one or two subwoofers. Or the new KEF Q750 and modified the crossover and the furniture too.
I wrote about them in this Audiocircle/GR Research thread:
Free measuring and testing services
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Top bad that the Kef Sp1632 is so difficult to obtain.
Another solution might be to use a Kef Q100 or Q150 and something like the Kairos and Continuum 3-Way The Kairos and Continuum Three-Way Loudspeakers - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
I’m NOT shure that is will work right away though due to the low impedance of the Kef speakers.
It has become so in the US apparently but I am not sure that necessarily applies elsewhere. KEF no longer supply the DIY community or other manufacturers with drivers but they do supply replacement drivers, drivers to shops to show potential customers, drivers for custom installation, etc... They are knocking around at least here in the UK. Of course if the demand for drivers grows to significant levels like it did in the US then they will tighten up but I suspect a trickle is not worth the cost and effort. I have had no contact with KEF directly and am speculating to a fair extent based on my limited experience. Perhaps it was unusual.
The serial no is easy: Just look for some on Ebay (or visit a shop) and copy down the number!
I went out specifically to listen to the Kef reference line in a extended demo last year based on the fact that the measured so well. If they sounded as good as the measurements suggested, I was planning to build something using the coax from a R900
The problem is they sound (to my ears anyway) hard and soulless.. They have a wide soundstage, but no jump factor at all. I could fall asleep listening to them. If I were to have subjectively guessed, I would have said they have poor decay. The measurements don't support this though, so this is probably some kind of bias.
I found even the basic ATC scm7 sounded better than the R900. In fact, to my ears, despite the fantastic measurements, (a real accomplishment!) MOST speakers sound better to me than KEF designs.
I have never found a KEF speaker that I have liked, so they obviously are just not my thing!
Damn it, I wish I could rely on a measurement to indicate what my subjective taste was.
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