Scott,
If keeping the same positions of FR and Sub as I have right now in my original post, moving closer to 4-6 ft to the speaker, the sound of FR (high and mid) is flat and collapsed. Bass is also significantly reduced the depth, naturalness and spaciousness by multi folds. Feels like bass, mid, treble of the whole frequency band kinda squeeze in together in 1 planar sheet of paper. No sense of depth, sound stage or "being there" in front of the singer and musical band.
As soon as I take a few step backward away from the speakers, the sounds starts to open up like the curtain is gradually lifted up for the real show and when I'm about 20ft away, that's when the sound is large, big, spacious, 3D, distinct, both bass and FR. It's really funny and feels like the mind is playing real trick on you just a few steps backward and forward. but the sonic difference is real! I never experience any significant changes like this before. Not with my 3-way enclosed speakers or any other musical gears for that matters.
-Tom
That's interesting, my room is entirely different to yours, 12 feet wide by 15 feet deep. The speakers are 6 feet apart and 6 feet from front wall. My listening position is about 4 feet away from them. The image is in the space between and behind them, similar to how Linkwitz describes.
I notice you have absorption panels on the side walls, usually for dipoles that's not recommended on the walls, diffusion but not absorption, something else to try
I notice you have absorption panels on the side walls, usually for dipoles that's not recommended on the walls, diffusion but not absorption, something else to try
this is my 3-way OB (I never used the tweeter I had already put into the baffle as "a contingency").
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/266524-active-multi-5.html#post4158184
first, I took measurements, both on and off axis. I actually measure voltage at the speaker and the sound at the mic simultaneously and calculate a true transfer function, so no errors by software calculating phase relationships etc.
I learnt that even though the 15 incher and the wide-range 4 incher can do it all by themselves, and the measurement looks good, inserting an 8 inch in between makes for a big difference subjectively (the integration work takes a few days though and this is with measured data available).
As for the bass, similar to what Troels G. was saying about his OB, I cannot even see the 15incher move and I am getting enough; (else I would have used a 12inch sub which I have).
I use Linkwitz speakers as a reference for dispersion and I am getting ever closer to them but I am not there yet. My OBs however are more sensitive and show the difference which lower wattage class A amps bring to the setup (FW clones). This year I will try AL200 instead of B200 in the last attempt to match the dispersion of the Linkwitz speakers.
You moving around the room noticing difference in bass which is completely dominated by room dimensions is just (re)discovering basics. Geddes was even making a matlab routine available to people who bought B&C drivers from him to calculate positions for a multi-sub setup where they are filling in each other's "holes". He has 3 subs in his listening room (I experienced the setup first hand). I however, with my other setups, was able to integrate a single sub from a corner so well that no one can locate it but they all will crack a smile when the bass kicks. The key is to have an irregular shape space with angled walls and I have similar even in vertical dimension. else it takes more work to get a decent result.
you should consider listening to people on the forum if you want to benefit from it. and read everything on the Linkwitzlab website.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/266524-active-multi-5.html#post4158184
first, I took measurements, both on and off axis. I actually measure voltage at the speaker and the sound at the mic simultaneously and calculate a true transfer function, so no errors by software calculating phase relationships etc.
I learnt that even though the 15 incher and the wide-range 4 incher can do it all by themselves, and the measurement looks good, inserting an 8 inch in between makes for a big difference subjectively (the integration work takes a few days though and this is with measured data available).
As for the bass, similar to what Troels G. was saying about his OB, I cannot even see the 15incher move and I am getting enough; (else I would have used a 12inch sub which I have).
I use Linkwitz speakers as a reference for dispersion and I am getting ever closer to them but I am not there yet. My OBs however are more sensitive and show the difference which lower wattage class A amps bring to the setup (FW clones). This year I will try AL200 instead of B200 in the last attempt to match the dispersion of the Linkwitz speakers.
You moving around the room noticing difference in bass which is completely dominated by room dimensions is just (re)discovering basics. Geddes was even making a matlab routine available to people who bought B&C drivers from him to calculate positions for a multi-sub setup where they are filling in each other's "holes". He has 3 subs in his listening room (I experienced the setup first hand). I however, with my other setups, was able to integrate a single sub from a corner so well that no one can locate it but they all will crack a smile when the bass kicks. The key is to have an irregular shape space with angled walls and I have similar even in vertical dimension. else it takes more work to get a decent result.
you should consider listening to people on the forum if you want to benefit from it. and read everything on the Linkwitzlab website.
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I notice you have absorption panels on the side walls, usually for dipoles that's not recommended on the walls, diffusion but not absorption, something else to try
Yes Scott, it's something worth a try and more reading on my side too. There are so much more involved in speakers building & design than what I had initially thought. Regardless of all that, i'm just glad, i stumble on this discoveries by accident. To some, it might be naive and tough luck, but it's what keep me on this path again. For now, I'll just go back and enjoy the wonderful sound of music from all the hard work
Roger that. Thank you for the pointer and advice Mr. Koja.
A sincere apology to Mr. Charlie if any of my posts/words might offend you. I didn't mean to deny the science behind sound and music just express a few of my thoughts and I do admire your deep knowledge for speaker design. I hope you can help chime in again to help educate beginners like me and many others that might find my post helpful on their path.
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