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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

help with enclosure design for 2-way tower
help with enclosure design for 2-way tower
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:24 PM   #1
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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Default help with enclosure design for 2-way tower

Well, here I am again and guess what, i've changed my mind... again.

So now I'm looking to build towers again but obviously still have a lack of knowledge about a couple of things.

Because the entire 1.650,- budget is going into just two speakers instead of 750,- of it going to the subwoofer they will (supposedly) exist of two woofers (Dayton Audio ES180Ti-8) and a way bigger tweeter (Fountek NeoPro5i) because it obviously has to be able to play 6 db louder and because of it's giant size which allows it to be crossed over at a way lower frequency (1.500 Hz 4th order) and because it's just cool. Internally powered by two Hifime T3 mono Jantzen cap amp boards, on for the tweeter, one for the woofers making it a dual mono setup. Controlled by a MiniDSP 2x4 (maybe HD) connected to my Bluesound Node 2.

But, first question: A good ribbon is better for midrange than a dedicated midrange woofer because it can produce multiple of these frequencies at the same time with way better control right?
I was also considering building 3-way towers with again two ES180Ti-8's but also a RS180P-4 and smaller tweeter, the NeoX3.0. I already kinda decided to build the 2-way towers we're talking about here but I just wanted to be sure.


And second, and this is where I got kinda scared of everything being wrong, what's going on with this enclosure because it looks pretty catastrophic.

Click the image to open in full size.
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I might have some drawings of my design as well, if this works sound wise.

Since I won't have a sub anymore and I do obviously want depth I gave them a nice big Vb and tuned them as low as possible without the roll off starting to get ugly shapes and making it mini subwoofers but have I made it to big and low? Because I honestly don't know what it means in real life but a camelback shaped impedance curve, excursion going higher than that of SVS PB16 Ultra and a impuls ending off-screen looks pretty terrifyingly wrong to me. But even when I make everything smaller and tune it almost twice as high or even using the recommended alignments there doesn't seem to be changing a lot.

Please tell me what you think about the setup and mainly the enclosure. Tell me if this is all normal/good and will all get perfect in real life under the influence of a DSP or that I have failed miserably without even noticing it.
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Old 17th April 2018, 10:19 AM   #2
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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Actually, here, I've already got some drawings but just from the outside though. Entirely designing the exact construction with bracing for a design I'm not sure if I'm gonna use it I find to much work.On the left is the 2-way design with the two woofers and NeoPro, on the right is the 3-way design which I still want to mention because I could make them as good as they can get internally (triple mono amplification) and fit them in the budget with ease, and the 3-way design actually looks pretty cool and it might have the NeoX3.0 instead of the NeoPro5i but the NeoX3.0 is still also a pretty big ribbon and still can go pretty low at 2 kHz 2nd order. Plus, the midranger can fill up those extra 500 Hz and lower as well, taking away even more midrange-stress from the woofers.

Click the image to open in full size.

So the3-way design will exist of again two ES190Ti-8 woofers, a RS180P-4 midranger and NeoX3.0 with every layer being powered by it's own Hifime T3 mono with Jantzen caps, and own SMPS300R power supply (so there's three amps and power supplies in each speaker) controlled by two MiniDSP 2x4's.
So let me also know what you think will be better, the 2-way with bigger tweeter or the 3-way configuration.

Each of these concepts has it's own advantages and disadvantages.
2-way:
+huge NeoPro5i can be crossed over lower than the NoeX3.0 and it's just way cooler overall
+requires just one MiniDSP 2x4
+can go louder than the 3-way concept
+simplicity
-for a 2-way the crossover frequency for the woofers is pretty low but still way higher than that of the 3-way concept
-dual mono amplification won't fit in the budget

2-way:
+lower crossover frequency for the woofers
+triple mono amplification
+the 3-way design looks cool
+/-tweeter has higher crossover point but there's the midranger to fill up that gap and lower
-the midranger and less big tweeter are limited in how loud they get limit (goes less loud)
-requires two 2x4 DSP's
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Old 17th April 2018, 04:08 PM   #3
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help with enclosure design for 2-way tower
Your pictures are not showing up.

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Old 17th April 2018, 04:20 PM   #4
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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oh, how do I make them show up?
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Old 17th April 2018, 06:30 PM   #5
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help with enclosure design for 2-way tower
I checked a couple of the URLs, they do not point at pictures.

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404 Not Found

You can also upload them to the forum, using the advanced edit mode.

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Old 17th April 2018, 06:49 PM   #6
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Got it! These are the graphs in unibox without the frequency response included because I couldn't get that to work.
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Old 17th April 2018, 06:53 PM   #7
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And these are the designs I drew. I know the far right one would probably be the best option and actually fits in my budget as well but at 150 cm high and 50 cm deep it's WAY too big for my room, the "normal" designs without the additional midranger on top already are quite on the limits.
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Old 17th April 2018, 07:21 PM   #8
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help with enclosure design for 2-way tower
Do note that at those dimension ratios the box is not likely a bass reflex but an ML-TL and unibox will not accurately model the speaker.

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Old 17th April 2018, 07:21 PM   #9
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Oh, I'm sorry, in the first post I said the 2-way would have dual mono amplification and maybe even a 2x4 HD DSP and then in the second post I said the opposite but this has to do with making it a 2-1/2-way design because I'm afraid the bottom woofer would drag down the midrange to much if it would also play up to 1,5 kHz but I'll make it clear.

I can make it a 2-1/2-way with one Hifime T3S and a T3 mono, so that's three channels of amplification, and two 2x4 DSP's. So I can filter the midrange frequencies away from the bottom woofer so it won't drag down the center point of the sound to much bu this does also have a disadvantage. Not only would dual mono amplification not fit in my budget but because only the top woofer would play the midrange frequencies those frequencies will be -6 db so I'll have to drop the rest of the spectrum 6 db as well to keep things flat.

But, I've been to a hifi store today (Chattelin, the highest end one in The Hague, KEF Blade, Wilson Audio Yvette, Devialet Phantom Gold, Kroma Elektra kinda stuff. The hifi stripclub.) for advice and they said the 3-way concept might be the better choice but they also said the midrange frequencies from the bottom woofer might be not that big of a problem and that I could also help aligning the phase by angling the speakers slightly backwards, which is what I did with the far left design.
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Old 17th April 2018, 07:27 PM   #10
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So you're saying the boxes are too big, or at least for unibox? If so, is there any other (free) software out there with which I could properly calculate?
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