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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Smallest Footprint Horn and Driver that can reach 500hz
Smallest Footprint Horn and Driver that can reach 500hz
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Old 19th April 2018, 06:04 PM   #21
Jack Arnott is offline Jack Arnott  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Until Parts Express or diysoundgroup starts selling a Unity horn, that will be the case. (The patent is expired, so there's nothing stopping them from selling one, just as they did with the AMT ribbons when THAT patent expired.)
I have been wondering about this. I have seen much speculation that there are not significant differences between the unity patent, and the synergy patent, and even James Croft expressed surprise in his patent column when the synergy patent was granted.

1) is it the confusion between the differences between the two patents that is stopping people from exploring unity?
2) what are the differences between the two? (I have seen people (mostly connected to Danley) talk about the differences, but seemingly only to cover tracks, not to really educate.) (I have admittedly not searched out this information, just come across it.)
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Old 19th April 2018, 07:20 PM   #22
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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I guess that I can say anything and it's invisible...(to certain folks)...

See Synergy Horn Flat Pack

Basically, the second patent, US8284976 assigned to DSL, is not different because it isn't distinguished from the first patent--US6411718, assigned to SPL--in its IP. (I wonder how it got through the patent office, in point of fact, because it cannot patent the same IP.)

The passive crossover of the DSL Synergy horns is talked about but is never detailed in the patent, so it wasn't actually patented.

The rest is up to the patent lawyers to argue. (I wouldn't want to be DSL trying to upstage the SPL Unity Summation Aperture patent.)
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Old 19th April 2018, 07:34 PM   #23
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Originally Posted by Jack Arnott View Post
...The smaller the exit the less that 20K will be bouncing around in there, and as you mentioned, the smaller the exit the better the sound will disperse.
The extensions of the horn beyond 1/4 wavelength will affect the HF directivity--and in a good way. The only concerns are impedance bounces due to irregularities and discontinuities. And you can't hear the harmonics of fundamentals that are above 10kHz.

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Originally Posted by Jack Arnott View Post
...I am not sure what horn would be used to get to 500hz, or if directivity is needed on the horn at that frequency in that room.
Perhaps you failed to read the information on the K-510 horn, along with its directivity vs. frequency plot. (That's okay.)

...and yes, directivity is actually more important in smaller "small rooms" than in larger "small rooms" due to early reflection issues affecting human hearing processes more strongly.

Chris
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Old 24th April 2018, 06:15 AM   #24
hollowboy is offline hollowboy  Australia
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Originally Posted by hollowboy View Post
I tried the NE65W-04 [...] it worked nicely [...] very smooth horn gain that will be easy to eq flat.
Update: I got this dialed in, it was easy. I'm running the horn down to 500Hz, with a pro 15" + sub below that. It is nice. I recommend it*

As a mono system, it plays satisfyingly loud in a big workshop, with a listening distance ~5m.

The OP, if listening in stereo in their tiny room should get effective SPL at least 10dB higher than what I'm hearing. That should be plenty, assuming the OP has more than a few watts available**.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornwannabe View Post
I live in Southeast Asia and the only direct couriers we have are in the USA. I dont know if horns.pl or stereo-lab.de can ship affordably to asia. So a US supplier would be ideal.
You can get the NE65W-04 from Parts Express or Digi-Key.

The horn mentioned in post 15 should be fine for this. It is also cheap and located reasonably close to the Philippines - I dunno if that helps with the "direct couriers" issue.
Horn Flare Large Format 2" Throat 4 Bolt Mount

The total cost for drivers & horns would be ~$ 200 AUD or 8,000 PHP.

*I don't recommend everything I buy. I have a lot of stuff on the shelf cos it wasn't good enough / wasn't right for the intended project. I've also tried several drivers on this horn, including a 14kg compression driver.

**my listening was with this amp
Dayton Audio DTA-120 Class T Mini Amplifier 60 WPC
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Old 24th April 2018, 01:24 PM   #25
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowboy View Post
...The horn mentioned in post 15 should be fine for this. It is also cheap and located reasonably close to the Philippines - I dunno if that helps with the "direct couriers" issue.
Horn Flare Large Format 2" Throat 4 Bolt Mount
For an inexpensive horn, that's probably one I'd use. It tests fine.

But I'd use it only if lowest price is the requirement...

The smaller horn is the K-510, which has much better performance in terms of polar control:

Smallest Footprint Horn and Driver that can reach 500hz-img_3208_small-png

Smallest Footprint Horn and Driver that can reach 500hz-img_3210_small-png

Chris
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Old 25th April 2018, 12:05 AM   #26
hollowboy is offline hollowboy  Australia
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Originally Posted by Cask05 View Post
The smaller horn is the K-510, which has much better performance in terms of polar control:
Is that simply because it is shorter / the coverage angle is wider?
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Old 25th April 2018, 11:45 AM   #27
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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The horn profiles and mouth roll out are different. One uses a straight-sided horn with unknown coverage angles and either an exponential or truncated tractrix flare.

The other uses a straight-sided horn section with full tractrix flare, plus "mumps" in the corners (a patented horn feature) which controls the "waist-banding" near the horn's axial fc. It was designed to hold its polars more constantly vs. frequency.

The two horns look similar, but they're really not--at least in terms of their performance.
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Old 25th April 2018, 01:22 PM   #28
multitask is offline multitask  Denmark
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Maybe im missing something, but the horns above are 2"? So polars will collapse above 7-8khz regardless of design.
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Old 25th April 2018, 02:40 PM   #29
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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I guess that there is a problem using the English language on an international forum. I said nothing about phase plug design of compression drivers. If that is what you consider to be of higher importance than the lower midrange upwards through most of the treble frequency band in terms of directivity, then I'd recommend starting another thread on that subject.

Me...I'd simply look for another compression driver that is higher performing to mate with my 2" throat horn.

Anything above 7-8 kHz is controlled by the compression driver phase plug. I thought that was "common knowledge"...Perhaps it isn't.

Click the image to open in full size.

Chris
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Old 25th April 2018, 03:26 PM   #30
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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The above plot was done in the Klipsch anechoic chamber in Hope AR using a K-402 horn and a B&C DE75 compression driver...which is not exactly what I'd call a "high cost" driver, but rather one that they used on their base-level commercial cinema products. They now use a B&C DE750 driver, which they call a K-691 driver. I can post plots of that driver's performance if required. It performs well.

I'd actually recommend considering the Faital Pro HF200 series drivers for home hi-fi use, at about the same cost or perhaps even lower, depending on your geographical location.

Chris
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