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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Adding a ribbon tweeter to an Alpair 6.2m
Adding a ribbon tweeter to an Alpair 6.2m
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Old 6th April 2018, 06:43 PM   #1
grahamgraham is offline grahamgraham  United Kingdom
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Default Adding a ribbon tweeter to an Alpair 6.2m

Hi all,

I've recently built a couple of Woden Designs Sasquatch full range with some great help and support from Dave, Chris and Scott:

Alpair 6M for Cyburgs Needle / BR M.A. Design

These sound good but I still need to tweak. What I planned for these drivers was versatility so I could use them for a few projects (mains, surrounds and multi way - MLTL and BR). One I'd like to try is to use this as mid bass and add a tweeter to get a wider stereo stage.

I'm thinking about ribbon tweeters and don't have too much to spend. About 150. I have a Behringer active crossover rack unit which I will use for the crossover before I progress to making as passive crossover.

Which tweeters would pair well with this driver? I have found two that look like likely candidates but I am new to multi range so I am not aware of the immediate pitfalls of driver selection. If there is an article someone can recommend then great. If someone can shed a bit of light even better.

Fountek Ribbon NeoCD 3.5H Size 110x98mm

Monacor RBT-35SR Size 110x98mm

I plan to place them on top of the Alpairs MLTL in free air. Would there be an issue with this?

Any advice would be great, thanks!
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Old 6th April 2018, 07:36 PM   #2
bbe22 is offline bbe22  South Africa
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You do realize that same as ........
Vauxhall / Opel ......you are pointing to 2 products essentialy the same thing ??
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Old 6th April 2018, 07:40 PM   #3
grahamgraham is offline grahamgraham  United Kingdom
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No, I didn't. Perhaps this is the first education. The shame the shame.

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You do realize that same as ........
Vauxhall / Opel ......you are pointing to 2 products essentialy the same thing ??
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Old 6th April 2018, 08:33 PM   #4
grahamgraham is offline grahamgraham  United Kingdom
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No, I didn't. Perhaps this is the first education. The shame the shame.
The specs are similar but I assumed they used the same premade horn.
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Old 7th April 2018, 02:08 AM   #5
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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Adding a ribbon tweeter to an Alpair 6.2m
Hi GrahamGraham,

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Something doesn't seem right to me - looking for a tweeter to add to cones that are designed to go past your ability to hear - i.e. at least 20kHz. I don't think there's any issue with your Alpairs in terms of treble.

I think stereo imaging is a fairly complex topic, but have you messed around with the positioning of your speakers and listening chair for starter ?

I've heard a pair of Alpair 10.3 in the Pencil boxes and the imaging was absolutely spooky, the best I have ever heard of any pair of speakers so far (driven by a SET amplifier). Interestingly, my experience was that the stuffing of the cabinet made a slight difference - not sure why, perhaps something about mid-treble leakage out the port, or re-radiating through the driver cone, but there was an optimal stuffing level for bass response and an optimal stuffing level for imaging and they were close but not exactly the same in terms of stuffing. I think there's a lot more tweaking you can do, possibly saving yourself a frustrating journey.
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Last edited by Bigun; 7th April 2018 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 7th April 2018, 03:34 AM   #6
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Adding a ribbon tweeter to an Alpair 6.2m
Graham, what is the rest of your system?

dave
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Old 7th April 2018, 08:56 AM   #7
grahamgraham is offline grahamgraham  United Kingdom
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HI, thanks for your input. Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I intend to use these drivers to learn various different methods of speaker design. Also, I really like the Alpairs but they don't make for good listening for more than 1 person so I thought adding a tweeter would make things wider.

I would like to learn how crossovers and tweeter integration works.

I have tried several positions for the MLTLs and the position in the photos is not the best one I have found so I am confident I have got them in the best position for imaging.

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Originally Posted by Bigun View Post
Hi GrahamGraham,

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Something doesn't seem right to me - looking for a tweeter to add to cones that are designed to go past your ability to hear - i.e. at least 20kHz. I don't think there's any issue with your Alpairs in terms of treble.

I think stereo imaging is a fairly complex topic, but have you messed around with the positioning of your speakers and listening chair for starter ?

I've heard a pair of Alpair 10.3 in the Pencil boxes and the imaging was absolutely spooky, the best I have ever heard of any pair of speakers so far (driven by a SET amplifier). Interestingly, my experience was that the stuffing of the cabinet made a slight difference - not sure why, perhaps something about mid-treble leakage out the port, or re-radiating through the driver cone, but there was an optimal stuffing level for bass response and an optimal stuffing level for imaging and they were close but not exactly the same in terms of stuffing. I think there's a lot more tweaking you can do, possibly saving yourself a frustrating journey.
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Old 7th April 2018, 08:58 AM   #8
grahamgraham is offline grahamgraham  United Kingdom
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I have two Tang Band 6.5" sealed subs running from an iNuke amp going via MiniDSP for room correction. I have a HiFImeDIY amp for the Alpairs but I intend to invest in a second amp of some sort to accommodate either the tweeters or the alpairs.

The rest of my set up is Genelec 1029a for HT duties.

I also have the Behringer active crossover at my disposal.

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Graham, what is the rest of your system?

dave
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Old 7th April 2018, 01:25 PM   #9
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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Adding a ribbon tweeter to an Alpair 6.2m
Without the benefit of direct experience my guess is that the tweeter will not give you much and may cause problems with good imaging due to the separation of the driver acoustic centres at high frequencies where the sound has a short wavelength and is therefore much more sensitive to driver distance. As you are open to suggestions - mine would be to go in the direction of using the A6.2 as a mid-tweet and add a supporting high quality woofer that is known to have a smooth roll-off at high frequencies (a 6" to 8"). This will relieve the A6.2 of LF stress which will reduced distortion and improve it's performance, leaving it to do the job it's best at which is the mid and highs. Build new cabinets, larger front baffle, moving the edge diffraction further from the driver cone. I would consider designing the cross-over frequency to coincide with the baffle step of the box.
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Old 7th April 2018, 01:49 PM   #10
eirik hansen is offline eirik hansen
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The listening 'window' can also be enlarged with severe toe in, crossing in front of the listening position.
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