I'm planning a compact 3-way dipole speaker.
The bass section is provided by LX521 which I have.
The mid driver is Seas M15CH002, I have a pair from a previous build.
I'm considering the following for the high-mid/tweeter range:
Tectonic Elements TEBM35C10-4
Dayton PC68-8
Scanspeak 5F/8422T01
BG Neo3-PDR
Edit: I'm open to considering any other small drivers with 10w+ power rating.
Crossover somewhere around 1-2khz, at least 24db/oct.
The mid and hi drivers will have no baffle at all.
The system SPL is already severely limited by the M15 driver so no worries about the 10W power rating for some of the tweeters.
Do you think this setup will work?
Which hi driver would you use?
The bass section is provided by LX521 which I have.
The mid driver is Seas M15CH002, I have a pair from a previous build.
I'm considering the following for the high-mid/tweeter range:
Tectonic Elements TEBM35C10-4
Dayton PC68-8
Scanspeak 5F/8422T01
BG Neo3-PDR
Edit: I'm open to considering any other small drivers with 10w+ power rating.
Crossover somewhere around 1-2khz, at least 24db/oct.
The mid and hi drivers will have no baffle at all.
The system SPL is already severely limited by the M15 driver so no worries about the 10W power rating for some of the tweeters.
Do you think this setup will work?
Which hi driver would you use?
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How important do you think rear radiation is for the HF? Some say yay, some nay, some yay then nay then yay (Linkwitz)
only one way to find out
I have built 2 dipole speakers. One with a Dayton 3/4" Neo tweeter, the other with the BG-Neo3. I really liked both of them. Obviously, the Neo-3 played lower.
Honestly, I'm not sure that the dipole radiation added to the sound. On the other hand, I believe it played lower and was smoother without the back cup.
That's just a WAG, I have zero data to confirm it.
I also felt that I had a broader range of crossover possibilities because of the dipole radiation.
Good luck with your project,
Stan, did you get through with your plans?
I also got the LX521 woofers and the M15CH002 like you. A 4-way is necessary I think, so I'm on a lookout for a midbass an tweeter.
What do you guys think of a Beyma 12P1000Nd? It has a disturbing rise at over 300 Hz. Is that a problem, where do the dipol peak arrive? Other more suitable options?
I already got a Wavecor 8,75" , but not sure it can go as low as 120 Hz in OB, preferable nude or minimal baffle. I see LX521 and Nao Note use 8 inches, so I guess it's not bad, but hope for more SPL/headroom.
How low can this 5" upper mid cross over, again preferable as a nude driver or minimal baffle?
Also how high before beaming, peak etc to the tweeter? (not decided yet, depends on where to cross over, but Neo3 PDR in mind).
Edit: I will use miniDSP 4x10HD as Crossover/DSP
I also got the LX521 woofers and the M15CH002 like you. A 4-way is necessary I think, so I'm on a lookout for a midbass an tweeter.
What do you guys think of a Beyma 12P1000Nd? It has a disturbing rise at over 300 Hz. Is that a problem, where do the dipol peak arrive? Other more suitable options?
I already got a Wavecor 8,75" , but not sure it can go as low as 120 Hz in OB, preferable nude or minimal baffle. I see LX521 and Nao Note use 8 inches, so I guess it's not bad, but hope for more SPL/headroom.
How low can this 5" upper mid cross over, again preferable as a nude driver or minimal baffle?
Also how high before beaming, peak etc to the tweeter? (not decided yet, depends on where to cross over, but Neo3 PDR in mind).
Edit: I will use miniDSP 4x10HD as Crossover/DSP
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Sorry for hijacking your post, Stan! Hopefully it benefits both and others too.
Another approach I'm thinking of is something like Juhazis Aino. They look beatiful and the project seems very thorough.
My carpenter skills won't do for the copying the sub bass, so I might run the subs as monopoles (two L26RO4Y in closed box, opposite firing) separate and place them close up to the front wall.
Then the question is how to do the rest. Copy the Aino's from mid bass and up, maybe add another woofer 1,5 way?
All suggestions are welcome.
Another approach I'm thinking of is something like Juhazis Aino. They look beatiful and the project seems very thorough.
My carpenter skills won't do for the copying the sub bass, so I might run the subs as monopoles (two L26RO4Y in closed box, opposite firing) separate and place them close up to the front wall.
Then the question is how to do the rest. Copy the Aino's from mid bass and up, maybe add another woofer 1,5 way?
All suggestions are welcome.
Anyone?
12 inchers of thought: Kappalite 3012LF, FaitalPro PR320 or FH 500. What do you think? Other candidates?
Tweeters not decided yet, depends on where to cross over. Somewhere between 2,5 and 3,5 I guess.
Maybe Neo3 PDR or Mundorf AMT 23D6.1-R or 25D1.1
In this kind of setup, what will be the SPL limiter? Sub bass (LX521) midbass, mid (5") or the tweeters? Say the subs F3 around 30-35 Hz.
12 inchers of thought: Kappalite 3012LF, FaitalPro PR320 or FH 500. What do you think? Other candidates?
Tweeters not decided yet, depends on where to cross over. Somewhere between 2,5 and 3,5 I guess.
Maybe Neo3 PDR or Mundorf AMT 23D6.1-R or 25D1.1
In this kind of setup, what will be the SPL limiter? Sub bass (LX521) midbass, mid (5") or the tweeters? Say the subs F3 around 30-35 Hz.
The OB bargain continues to be the Peerless 830669. 8.3 mm Xmax, 523 sq cm of cone area, shorting ring, and around .6 QTS once you get it on a baffle. And can be had for $65 - $95 US each depending where it is on sale.
The Kappalite LF is an excellent driver but for an OB application the Q is a bit low and it has less than 1 MM more xmax than the Peerless and is usually double the cost.
The Kappalite LF is an excellent driver but for an OB application the Q is a bit low and it has less than 1 MM more xmax than the Peerless and is usually double the cost.
Although it is a 15" driver, the Eminence Alpha 15A is only $79 and the high Qts of around 1.2 is a great match for an OB of H-frame.
Also, the first post mentioned a Tectonic Elements driver. I got a batch of these that underwent large changes in the frequency response over about a year's time in storage. Sad, because they showed some promise when new. I advise you to avoid these like the plague.
Neo3pdr is well characterized as a dipole tweeter, with only a few warts. Cross 3.5k or above, not lower. Keep the size of the radiator small, which ever dipole/planar driver you choose.
Also, the first post mentioned a Tectonic Elements driver. I got a batch of these that underwent large changes in the frequency response over about a year's time in storage. Sad, because they showed some promise when new. I advise you to avoid these like the plague.
Neo3pdr is well characterized as a dipole tweeter, with only a few warts. Cross 3.5k or above, not lower. Keep the size of the radiator small, which ever dipole/planar driver you choose.
Thanks!
I've seen that Peerless, looks like a bargain. Fairly good Xmax, but combined with low sensitivity and power limits, I'm a little worried.
Since this would likely be running nude, I guess it takes some EQ to reach 120 Hz?
Seen through some 15" also and found some good candidates, but then the overall height of the system will be fairly high. Sub's with bridge about 65 cm + 15" mid bass= 105 cm. Then the 5" mid, so the tweeter will have a center of about 120 - 130 cm.
I could maybe switch the tweeter and mid, but still. At least with a ribbon/AMT, with the narrow vertical dispersion. Don't know of a good implementation of two domes.
I've seen that Peerless, looks like a bargain. Fairly good Xmax, but combined with low sensitivity and power limits, I'm a little worried.
Since this would likely be running nude, I guess it takes some EQ to reach 120 Hz?
Seen through some 15" also and found some good candidates, but then the overall height of the system will be fairly high. Sub's with bridge about 65 cm + 15" mid bass= 105 cm. Then the 5" mid, so the tweeter will have a center of about 120 - 130 cm.
I could maybe switch the tweeter and mid, but still. At least with a ribbon/AMT, with the narrow vertical dispersion. Don't know of a good implementation of two domes.
Woofer power handling in an OB is not all that important. Most 12-18" woofers are limited by how much it takes to drive them to their useable excursion limits, assuming an unloaded OB application.
In the case of, say the Peerless 830669 or the Kappa Lite LF down say at 35 Hz it only takes about 30 watts or so free air (effectively OB) conditions. The Kappa Lite power rating of 450 watts is a thermal, not OB mechanical derived value. The 450 value is meaningless until you consider how most pro users will use it. In a box with a lot of mid range and a high pass filter limiting input below around 40 Hz. It is designed to play loud with limited output below 45 Hz. or so.
The Peerless is a Hi-Fi woofer designed for a sealed box and is usually done at 500 Hz or so. The 100 watts is more a mechanical based power limit, not so much thermal. I have dumped over 200 watts into the Peerless at mid bass frequencies (in a sealed box, .9 QTS') with out any problems.
In the case of, say the Peerless 830669 or the Kappa Lite LF down say at 35 Hz it only takes about 30 watts or so free air (effectively OB) conditions. The Kappa Lite power rating of 450 watts is a thermal, not OB mechanical derived value. The 450 value is meaningless until you consider how most pro users will use it. In a box with a lot of mid range and a high pass filter limiting input below around 40 Hz. It is designed to play loud with limited output below 45 Hz. or so.
The Peerless is a Hi-Fi woofer designed for a sealed box and is usually done at 500 Hz or so. The 100 watts is more a mechanical based power limit, not so much thermal. I have dumped over 200 watts into the Peerless at mid bass frequencies (in a sealed box, .9 QTS') with out any problems.
I just notice the earlier discussion about making the tweeter dipole too.
Linkwitz uses two dome tweeters, Kreskowsky has two tweeter in one model, others have Neo3 open back. He used to have one model with just frontfire tweeter.
In my AINOgradient thread (my signature) you can follow my experiences with different tweeter systems. I started with a ribbon plus horn, added a rear dome and ended with B&G Neo3PDR open back and turned 90¤. The difference in sound is noticable. It is because of different radiation pattern and it's effect on decayed response! Difficulties in dispersion start at 2-4kHz, when a dome mid stops acting like a real dipole, because it's magnet structure acts as a diffuser.
Peerless SLS12" should be a very good lower mid driver! My choice Beyma 12" midwoofer isn't perfect, but it looks sexy when nude!
Linkwitz uses two dome tweeters, Kreskowsky has two tweeter in one model, others have Neo3 open back. He used to have one model with just frontfire tweeter.
In my AINOgradient thread (my signature) you can follow my experiences with different tweeter systems. I started with a ribbon plus horn, added a rear dome and ended with B&G Neo3PDR open back and turned 90¤. The difference in sound is noticable. It is because of different radiation pattern and it's effect on decayed response! Difficulties in dispersion start at 2-4kHz, when a dome mid stops acting like a real dipole, because it's magnet structure acts as a diffuser.
Peerless SLS12" should be a very good lower mid driver! My choice Beyma 12" midwoofer isn't perfect, but it looks sexy when nude!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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