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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
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Old 11th March 2018, 04:31 PM   #11
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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Location: I had a Déjà Moo - I've seen that BS before!
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Execution is important… there are good stamped steel baskets & poor ones...there are good cast aluminum baskets & poor ones…
Exactly! A cast basket does not make a good driver per definition! And a steel basket does not automatically mean the driver is bad.

I've seen several times a broken cast basket, one time from shipping, two times within an enclosure. A steel basket can bend but there's a chance you can reverse the damage. A broken cast basket is often gone forever. Again, that does not mean either is better, it depends on what happens and how it's used.

Steel baskets are a lot leighter and cheaper and there are some you don't even need to 'route in'to the baffle.
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Old 11th March 2018, 06:28 PM   #12
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
the cheap price is maintained through large volume manufacturing in China and the complete lack of voodoo-bs in the design.
Which PA drivers are made in China?

Both FaitalPro and B&C produce all their drivers in Italy.

As for steel vs cast aluminium:
I've used the steel-framed Faital 5FE120 which costs £20 here.
18Sound (also made in Italy) have the 5W430 which is very, very similar.
It has an aluminium basket but loses the demodulation and costs double at £40.

Either way on small (<6.5") I don't think cast frames make an audible or otherwise significant difference.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:04 PM   #13
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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I really thank you guys! Vortex threw down.

I gained some fabulous info, yet realized I left waaay too many open questions.
I am not actually shopping for a midrange driver with this thread. As far as the stamped steel frame ... I put a bit too much emphasis on that, and misdirected what I was after more. I have used a multitude of drivers with different frame types, which were good. One of my favorites, still, is an Energy sub driver with plastic frame.
Where my question came from, is this. I have already realized the 6FE200, and the 6FE100, are giant killers. So I wondered, what exactly would a person buy, with similar sensitivity and freq response, that WOULD be a sincere upgrade? And into what price range mid drivers that you would now be looking at?

Or, if someone owned the 6FE200 and wanted to upgrade ... where would they look? And remember I am not shopping ... But I want to learn the whys and hows something would be an upgrade. And where we are all on the same page, lets keep the intended FR from 250hz to 1500.
Thanks again for the help.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:18 PM   #14
mordikai is online now mordikai  United States
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For 250-1500 I really love the b&C 8pe21, it sounds great and is easy to cross.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:39 PM   #15
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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For indoor, home use? I would think a mid that large would have beaming issues. But then, I'm new, and haven't seen a lot of 8" mid builds. I think this is a similar driver, with great FR from 250 - 1500, but in a 6.5" version.

B&C 6MD38 6-1/2" Midrange Speaker

But what I want to learn, is what could I glean from the above driver, which would make me spend the extra funds, over the 6FE200.

I can see why the extra funds would make a difference, when stepping up to an 8" driver.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:57 PM   #16
mordikai is online now mordikai  United States
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The B&C 6md38 looks nice but I've never used it. The beaming shouldn't be too bad with the 8pe21 crossed at 1500, sometimes you just gotta try things. I did an experiment about 10 years ago with the same 1" tweet and 7" mid, one pair crossed at 1700 and the other at 2700 and I did not hear as much difference as I expected. I was able to find certain recordings that would allow me to hear the difference, but neither one sounded bad and I could have happily lived with either.
ymmv
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Old 12th March 2018, 06:25 AM   #17
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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If I were in the need of something superior to the Faital 5FE120 the one I'd consider would be the BMS 5S117.

Consequently as a replacement for the 6FE200 I'd look at the BMS6S117.
It costs £90 here and comes with aluminium basket and triple demodulation.

The distortion plots BMS publishes look rather good especially considering that in this case BMS measured at 100W input, not 1W!

Last edited by Charles Darwin; 12th March 2018 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:27 PM   #18
Vortex is offline Vortex  Hungary
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Send a message via ICQ to Vortex Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Which PA drivers are made in China?
Both FaitalPro and B&C produce all their drivers in Italy.
Or just assemble. I've seen weird things in the world. European manufacturer of plastic pipes for buildings etc. Now it operates like: keep 1 medium sized factory where you still manufacture pipes but actually nobody should be aware of the fact that you're importing 10x the amount of the exactly same pipes from China. Now comes the trick: let's put our traditional "Made in XY" mark onto all pipes we have and sell them for good "EU" price - and keep the Bentley.

I'm NOT saying any of these speaker manufacturers do so ! I just say I've seen enough in the world to question everything a little bit. But it's just "a little bit" so if you're aware that even cone material, magnet, etc.. all is geniune EU stuff, woo-hoo. I wish you had right - still you probably have but I still have a little sceptic evil sitting on my shoulder whispering stupid things into my ears

@ Flaxxer: I didn't want to be too much, sry. Just had a little time..
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Last edited by Vortex; 12th March 2018 at 12:34 PM. Reason: off a little bit :)
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:33 PM   #19
Vortex is offline Vortex  Hungary
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Send a message via ICQ to Vortex Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
If I were in the need of something superior to the Faital 5FE120 the one I'd consider would be the BMS 5S117.

Consequently as a replacement for the 6FE200 I'd look at the BMS6S117.
It costs £90 here and comes with aluminium basket and triple demodulation.

The distortion plots BMS publishes look rather good especially considering that in this case BMS measured at 100W input, not 1W!
Great input for me too, haven't checked BMS speakers yet. Interesting is their plots with 100W - it's like magnifying little deviances too.

Can we interpret for a let's say 91dB driver it's 100W plot as +20dB lift over the ~91 1W plot ? Trying to imagine/convert these back to 1W/2.83V RMS plots.
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:38 PM   #20
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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I don't know if there are any rules for cone drivers on the increase or decrease of THD with excursion but I suspect there are none.

All I can say is that I would expect THD to be lower at 90dBspl than at 110.

BMS are a bit weird with their measurement. Some of the larger woofers are measured at 1000W input while being mounted in completely unsuited, sealed cabs.
1kW puts them near Xmax (as do 100W with regards to the 5&6S117) which is good but the sealed cabs of the wrong size make the FR look very bad.
That said they do look very close to the simulations of the same driver in the same bad box.
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