Components Questions

[maLx]

Hi, Everyone.

In my never-ending quest to find solid drivers for DIY audio projects I want to ask everyone here if they have used.

Any Focal components? Generally for Car Audio but I do like their build quality, the sound on the first set I built seem really nice and they do have some solid spec data. From what I can tell their 3-way kits offer solid crossovers as well. I also like how they are 4ohm.


What about these Ribbon Speakers? I was thinking of using these as a Mid Range speaker in a Hi-Fi setup? Dayton Audio AMTPRO-4 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter 4 Ohm Maybe they don't go low enough for that but if you guys don't think they do, any suggestion on a ribbon to use as a midrange? I think that would be a really unique look.

What other drivers have you guys used that have been a bit unique?

Let me know,
Joey

 

[ScottG]

..for a planar (not ribbon) midrange that's good (and anyway near reasonable in price), this is about it:

Bohlender Graebener Neo10 Planar Transducer

 

[maLx]

Thanks! That looks good. I was looking for a bunch of these because I'm designing a Home Theater Setup but the left and right front Loudspeakers will double as a Hi-Fi listening setup.

Here's my question.
1: I was ideally looking for a 4ohm driver. Do they make a 4ohm version of this?

2: To save on cost, do you think for the channels other than the center channel and the left and right, could I possibly downgrade to like a Neo 8? Bohlender Graebener Neo8-PDR Planar Transducer Or would this create problems?

3: For the center channel I was thinking of pairing this with two of these 4" woofers and use them for Midbass: 165A3" Midrange Speaker - Focal Replacement for HP100-A3 and a bullet tweeter (FaitalPRO FD371 Bullet Super Tweeter 8 Ohm) but for the two rear channels and the two ceiling channels (Dobly Atmos) was just going to use them with that same tweeter.

The left and right channel will have a 6.5" Focal Access Woofer for Mid bass.

I'm trying to get the best sound quality in the left and right channel and get close to sound quality with the other channels for movie watching. I want to make sure that the drivers match as much as possible so I don't have a ton of frequencies to manage if that makes sense.

Let me know what you think!

Let me know,
Joey

 

[ScottG]

1. No.

2. Neo 8 isn't really a down-grade, it's just not capable of going as low in frequency depending on input. IF you use a steep high-pass crossover (4th or higher) at around 500 Hz you should be fine. You can do all of your loudspeakers with it (..instead of the 10).

3. Suggestion: Use the Neo 8 PDR and equalize the top octave with a digital eq. and you won't need a tweeter.

Bohlender Graebener Neo8-PDR Planar Transducer

-use the same midbass drivers throughout as well. (..and not those little 4" drivers with low xmax).

minidsp has digital crossovers with eq..

Home | miniDSP

 

[maLx]

Thanks Scott for the suggestion. So just quickly. Let's say I wanted to go with a tweeter because I just wanted more drivers--you know part of the reason why we build speakers is because we want them to look the way we want... my questions are

1: What are the advantages to the 10 vs the 8? Would I be sacrafising sound quality with the 8 or does it just not go as loud?

2: For my L and R front loudspeakers. I wanted to use:
This tweeter: FaitalPRO FD371 Bullet Super Tweeter 8 Ohm
The 8 or 10 midrange, leaning towards 8 due to ohm rating.
Focal 6 and 1/2 drivers for the loud speakers to handle the upper bass (I have subs for mid and low bass) the specs for the 6 and 1/2 driver are here: Drivers - Google Drive

3: For the center channel, the same Tweeter and Midrange as above but use these 4" woofers due to space.
http://focal-america.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/FT_access_100AC.pdf
Ignore the tweeter on the 4" woofers Id get them with out it. You can see that here: 165A3" Midrange Speaker - Focal Replacement for HP100-A3

If I were to use the 10 or the 8, the Bullet Tweeter, and the Focal Woofers, which one of these crossovers would you recommend: Eminence PXB3:3K5 3-Way Speaker Crossover Board 500/3,500 Hz

or

https://www.parts-express.com/eminence-pxb3-5k0-3-way-speaker-crossover-board-500-5000-hz--290-654

Thanks!
Joey

 

[maLx]

And also if you recommend different woofers I'm open. They don't have to be Focal but I do really like their drivers. I just want something 4ohm and something that has great build quality.

Thanks,
Joey

 

[ScottG]

1. The 10 extends lower in freq.. meaning you can comfortably cross it about an octave lower than the 8 with the same steep high-pass filter. (..250 Hz for 10 vs 500 Hz for 8 with a steep crossover on both).

2. That tweeter is all wrong for your application. It's high-eff. unlike the rest of your components, it doesn't go very low in freq.. AND it's very directive - which is particularly bad if you use it for a ceiling configuration. (..it's also 7 ohms.) If really want a tweeter (and the right kind can be useful - particularly for a ceiling-mount location), look for something with wide dispersion (at higher freq.s) and lower extension (lower fs). (..if it's a bright aluminum face-plate desire, there are some tweeters out there with that.)

3. What dimension can you tolerate for the midbass driver (..that you believe necessitates the two small Focal's)?

 

[maLx]

Let me research some other tweeters. Can you explainn what you mean more by #3? Like what the box size?

I'm looking on parts-express but I don't see something that catches my eye. I need a tweeter that's visually appealing so yeah, I really do like the silver look of the bullet tweeter. Is there something you recommend? Will be back on in 30m and do a bit more research.

 

[ScottG]

Tweeter Ex. (..a very premium tweeter with low fs and wide dispersion at higher freq.s.)

Satori TW29R Ring Dome Tweeter

..and perhaps 2 of these wired in parallel for 4 ohm nominal (..though these really aren't efficient enough if you have to consider baffle-step compensation, not a problem for in-wall/ceiling though):

4" SB12NRXF25-8 :: SB Acoustics

SB12NRXF25-8 - Solen Electronique Inc.

 

[globalplayer]

I have used Focal components although in the car.

K2 Power 165KR, very clear and revealing sound, midwoofer is exceptional, will get stupid loud without a hint of distortion.
(still got hearing damage from this one but it was worth it.)

Utopia 33WX, probably the best car woofer sq-wise.

K2 Power 33KX not too far away from the Utopia.

Polyglass 165VR, very detailed, high sensivity, not much bass.

And a few other Focal speakers, but those mentioned impressed me the most.

I also have used the Fane Sovereign 12-250TC fullrange which can be called a bit unique because of it`s 2 whizzer cones.
I highly recommend this one if you are after natural paper cone sound.

 

[maLx]

Thanks for the tips. So you're saying the soft dome tweeter + the Neo 8 would do well? And then we have to pair a woofer. I thought if you wired in series it increased the resistance. So two 8ohm speakers wired in series would give me 16ohms? I do like the idea of doing two 4" drivers in series, especially for the center channel. So you're saying do that on the left and right channel too instead of using the 6 and 1/2" Focal Woofer?

None of these speakers are going in the wall. I'm going to design open baffles for the tweeter and the mid range planar thingy, and the woofers I'm shooting for sealed enclosures. For the channels that are in the rear and the channels above me, I'd only use the Neo 8's and the tweeters. For the center channel and the left and right speaker, I'd use the woofers in addition.

Are there any kinds of tweeters that are a bit less directional than what I chose but are all silver or all yellow? I know it sounds crazy but looks are important to me and I'm not crazy about the look of a dome tweeter.

I was also considering building a conical horn of some kid but I don't appear to have room for that--although that would be sick.

And damn look at these... these are beautiful Morel TSCM 634 Titanium Supreme Series 6" Midrange 4 Ohm

Thanks for the tip. The Focal woofers I was going to use to handle the midbass was...

two of these Focal 6AS3 6.5" Access Series Midbass Speaker from 165AS3

And then I have two pioneer 10" subs which I like the sound.

If I was going to go Focal woofers would you think that I wouldn't need them to handle a crazy amount of bass because I have the subs? Or would you still recommend something like the K2?

 

[ScottG]

-wired in PARALLEL gives you a net 4 ohms with 2 8 ohm drivers. Series is 16 ohms.

Open baffle usually means dipole.. most tweeters are enclosed (rear output is enclosed) and are NOT dipolar. Neo 3 and various AMT drivers can be though. Can't really do that with ceiling speakers though.

Neo 8's won't go low enough for any channels, nor with 10's - you need something that goes to at least 80 Hz.

Dipole operation has MASSIVE limitation with respect to pressure loss (..unless you have a HUGE baffle).

-why not use the Morel drivers as a mid-bass (vented/bass-reflex, NOT open-baffle) and this ring radiator?

ScanSpeak Revelator R2904/7000-00 Tweeter, Silver Face, Silver Plug

-much more simplistic (..not as good off-axis at higher freq.s), though costly - and it should give you most of that aesthetic you are looking for.

(..simple minidsp 2-way and a diy n-core amplifier for each driver.)

 

[maLx]

I like the idea of using two speakers. The reason why I wanted to use three is because I wanted a feeling of vertical sound when listening to just the left and right channel. Similar to what you get with a line source but without actually having to build one.

So let’s for now ditch this idea of a silver tweeter that’s round.

Maybe instead of doing a tweeter like that I just do the morel midbass driver with two ribbon tweeters or two AMT Tweeters and cross them over at different points? Something long and skinny.

I’ll put the mid-bass driver in a sealed box that won’t be open baffle but the tweeters will probably be mounted on a single piece of wood due to the fact that they will most likely have a closed back.

Check out OMA Ironic speakers. It looks like a mid bass driver with a long and skinny tweeter of some kind.

If we were to go that route what would you recommend?

Thanks so much for helping me. This is my second speaker build I’m excited about it. I have a lot to learn.

 

[ScottG]

-you are more likely to get a vertical sound with point-source than a line-source UNLESS the line-source is very high vertically. Think Magnepan.

Here are some Egglestonworks speakers with the Morel driver you like and a Morel tweeter. Good presence and vertical dispersion: (..its a youtube though, so don't expect to much.)

YouTube

 

[maLx]

Thanks thanks. So you’re saying that I’ll get better vertical dispersion out of the last set of tweeters you recommend? The silver ones with that funky looking thing in the middle?

How’s the fidelity on those and the Morel Driver? I’m also looking for amazing sound quality of course

 

[globalplayer]

Thanks for the tip. The Focal woofers I was going to use to handle the midbass was...

two of these Focal 6AS3 6.5" Access Series Midbass Speaker from 165AS3

And then I have two pioneer 10" subs which I like the sound.

If I was going to go Focal woofers would you think that I wouldn't need them to handle a crazy amount of bass because I have the subs? Or would you still recommend something like the K2?

Here's the datasheet of the 6AS3 if you don`t have it already.
https://www.focal.com/sites/www.foc...ment/access_165as3_woofer-technical_sheet.pdf

Fairly high qts but that is to be expected for a car midwoofer.
The Access is the entry-level line of Focal car hifi speakers.

I would recommend at least the new Flax cones for extended listening pleasure. Too bad the polyglass speakers were discontinued. They were great value.

I think I don`t really get what you mean, but "mixing" subs is not recommended unless each has it`s own frequency band which is not overlapping.

The Focal subs are more SQ (Sound quality) subs. Maybe as SQ as you can get. Also they sound exceptionally clean whereas your typical car woofer sounds "fat". If you just want SPL maybe look elsewhere. To take advantage of those subs or speakers of the Flax/K2/Utopia Line the "chain of reproduction" will have to be HQ also ("Everything" before the speaker). Those speakers will reveal any weak link, especially the K2 and upwards.

Regarding the 6.5" and open baffle. It has a sensivity of only 86db/w/m, going open baffle this will be very "quiet".

 

[ScottG]

The "ironic" is 35 inches wide.

-it's a RAAL super-tweeter.

 

[maLx]

Here's the datasheet of the 6AS3 if you don`t have it already. <snip>

Thanks for the tips. If I used the 6.5 I’d be using it in a sealed box.

 

[maLx]

The "ironic" is 35 inches wide.



-it's a RAAL super-tweeter.

Damn that’s a 700 dollar tweeter. Problem is I wouldn’t be able to buy 7 of them so if I got two I’d have to find other tweeters that offer similar fidelity for the home theater portion of my setup.

Tomorrow I’m going to draw up the room and take photos and post here so you can see what I’m thinking.

 

[ScottG]

Thanks thanks. So you’re saying that I’ll get better vertical dispersion out of the last set of tweeters you recommend? The silver ones with that funky looking thing in the middle?

How’s the fidelity on those and the Morel Driver? I’m also looking for amazing sound quality of course

-yes. Better dispersion than the ring radiator.

Scan Speak also has that in a dome variation (..still really expensive and off-axis while slightly better than the other isn't as good as the SB tweeter):

ScanSpeak Revelator D2904/7100-02 Wide Surround, Silver Face Plate

Their Be tweeters are actually their best drivers (Same for SB Acoustics), but don't have machined *silver* face-plates. (..actually the SB does.)


-yes, the Morel driver is really nice. It's not very efficient though - but if you are actively driving it with an n-core amp that's irrelevant. (..you can also use the minidsp to limit low freq. extension and thereby increase max spl.. and just let your sub's handle those lower freq.s.)