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Atmos 5.1.4 setup, a lot of advice needed
Atmos 5.1.4 setup, a lot of advice needed
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Old 13th February 2018, 01:01 PM   #1
Lex vs Kingpin is offline Lex vs Kingpin  Turkey
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ankara
Default Atmos 5.1.4 setup, a lot of advice needed >>> Now 5.2.2

EDIT (08 March): now it is a 5.2.2 setup


Hello all,

First of all I wasn't sure where to open this thread so if it is in the wrong place please don't hesitate to move it.

Currently in our simple home theater room we have a w1070 projector, a fixed screen (around 100" diagonal, 16:9) and a 10 year old denon 987 receiver. I am using the Strata Mini (not so mini) stereo speakers.

I am planning to buy a umik-1 microphone, a 4k projector (hopefully a second hand jvc r400) and a suitable receiver within the upcoming months. I will also be trying to treat the room acoustically by using some DIY bass traps (rockwool).

We live at the last floor of a 4 story concrete building. Our flat is also two-story inside and the room is in the second floor. The room size is 4.4 x 3.2 meters (15x11 feet), have two sloped ceilings (2.5 meters to 2.75 meters and then dropping to 2.1 meters) and a concrete beam + column on the right side. You can see its model in the attachment.

Our recliner couch was very close to rear wall but moved it up front so that the distance to screen is now around 1.5 meters (10 feets). I watched couple of episodes of Altered Carbon. I can definitely live with it so I have some space for left and right surrounds.

I am thinking a 5.1.4 system and have been reading on avr selections, speaker placements, speaker selections, acoustics treatments, etc. and lost myself.


For AVR's, I believe my choices for 5.1.4 are:

1) Denon X4200W (2015 model): needs an external 2CH amp. No Dolby Vision.

2) Marantz SR6010 (2015 model): needs an external 2CH amp. Dolby Vision and HLG (hybrid log gamma) will be available with a firmware update (HDR FORMAT COMPATIBILITY).

3) Denon X4300H (2016 model): no need for an external amp for 5.1.4, also it can be used for 7.1.4 with an external amp. Has Dolby Vision.

4) Marantz SR6011 (2016 model): no need for an external amp for 5.1.4, also it can be used for 7.1.4 with an external amp. Dolby Vision and HLG (hybrid log gamma) will be available with a firmware update (HDR FORMAT COMPATIBILITY).

5) Marantz SR6012 (2017 model): no need for an external amp for 5.1.4, also it can be used for 7.1.4 with an external amp. Has Dolby Vision and HLG.

6) Denon X4400H (2017 model): no need for an external amp for 5.1.4, also it can be used for 7.1.4 with an external amp. Has Dolby Vision and Auro 3D.

Are there any other cheaper models??


For speakers,

I own a pair of AV123's Strata Mini's with 2x 8" active subwoofers on them (6moons audio reviews: AV123 Strata Mini) and a pair of Rothschilde A2's (Speaker Comparison: Audio Concepts Sapphire XL vs. Stone Image Audio Rothschilde A2 Part 1 | Hi-Fi Systems Reviews | HighFidelityReview - Hi-Fi systems, DVD-Audio and SACD reviews)

1) I am not sure whether I can mix them.

2) I am not sure whether I need a center channel; if yes, which one?

3) I read about full range drivers and as an option planning to buy Alpair 7.3's or Pluvia 7's for DIY budget application. If I go this way probably I will be building all 9 channels using these.

4) For subwoofer, again I am lost. Since I am in Turkey, I will probably buying the driver and build it here. Any recommendations?


And finally, I checked Room EQ Wizard's room simulation and I played with different configurations. The best I can come up with is attached... What are my options to make the frequency response as flat as possible? I tried various speaker locations, added two subs, changed crossover settings, etc. in the simulation.

Cheers!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ss0.jpg (219.8 KB, 139 views)
File Type: jpg ss1.jpg (174.1 KB, 138 views)
File Type: jpg rm_01.JPG (115.0 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg 5.1.4_01.JPG (89.7 KB, 133 views)

Last edited by Lex vs Kingpin; 9th March 2018 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 02:18 PM   #2
Octavia is offline Octavia  United States
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I'll be following your thread with interest as I have a similar size room for a small home theater. I know nothing of Atmos but for what it's worth I read a note from Andrew Jones (sorry can't recall exactly where) commenting on the importance of all speakers having the same phase response. That also has me thinking of using Alpair 7.3's all around. Somewhere in here Mark Fenlon mentioned that he uses an Alpair 7.3 in a sealed .5 cubic ft enclosure for his center channel. For sub's there are so many options. I'm currently using a Genesis servo sub but have read great things about the Rythmik servo's too.
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Old 13th February 2018, 03:49 PM   #3
augerpro is offline augerpro  United States
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You'll need Atmos certified speakers to use Atmos processing
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Old 13th February 2018, 04:13 PM   #4
Octavia is offline Octavia  United States
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Hmm that seems odd, what does the certification consist of?
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Old 13th February 2018, 04:45 PM   #5
chrisb is offline chrisb
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In random order my observations / questions are:

- This is not a huge room, and placement of the requisite extra channels for the Atmos effect could present some very interesting challenges.

- I've evolved my own small-ish room (340ft^2) surround system over the past 7-8 years using all FR drivers - flirted a bit with Fostex, but now all MarkAudio Alpairs / Pluvias - so I know that satisfactory results are attainable within their safe operational window.
The current configuration is A10(metal) in the front row three, with Pluvia7(vented) as front height, and A6.2 in very small sealed corner wedges as rear surrounds, and a pair of front corner mounted "subs" powered by Hypex UcD180.


- I've owned 2 different models of Denon and am now currently running an Onkyo. I've also set up two Marantz HT receivers for family members. Take it as anecdotal, but specs and the D+M heritage notwithstanding, the Onkyo an either of the Marantz are much better sounding pieces than either of the Denons.

- Pardon the question, but aside from the printed label, what exactly are the special performance parameters of a speaker that would make it "certified for Atmos"? While I've seen several big-screen / 3D films recently with the full deal 12 channels, etc and will admit that when done tastefully they can add to what I call the "full body immersion experience" , I've not ventured into a retail shop capable of demoing a residential sized Atmos system, so I'm not yet convinced that the trouble and costs associated with the extra channels can guarantee a commensurate "improvement".

- I think that more so with surround sound than 2-channel audio only, the room will ultimately determine efficacy of the multiple channels involved. Absent the ability to engineer / modify the room, sometimes a modest compromise can yield "optimal" results - you know, a bit of the old "less is more" mantra. I did find a big improvement in the sense of envelopment in my system by adding the front height channels.

edit:

Don't surprised at lack of consensus re the center channel, but after several systems, I'm convinced that it's very important, and should be as close as possible to the tonal signature of the main L&R. As any receiver processor you'd be using would have the most current bass management as part of its DSP, the center needn't have the deepest bass. Unless you have a projector and acoustically transparent screen, the center is often quite compromised in terms of enclosure size, but being able to select crossover points as high as the THX recommended 80Hz - or higher- can be very helpful there.
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Last edited by chrisb; 13th February 2018 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:25 PM   #6
augerpro is offline augerpro  United States
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Atmos has technical requirements around directivity and response filtering. I don't have the details, wish I did. Then I suppose they pay Dolby a fee to show they are approved for Atmos, kind of like THX.
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:57 PM   #7
chrisb is offline chrisb
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The full specs for Atmos installations for home theater run to 43 pages, but I think pages 6 - 9 cover the types of speakers "recommended" - including "integrated" types - without getting into brand names / model numbers
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf
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Old 15th February 2018, 08:43 AM   #8
Lex vs Kingpin is offline Lex vs Kingpin  Turkey
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Thank you all, especially chrisb!

@augerpro: I do not believe we need an "atmos certified" speakers if the overhead speakers are mounted on a wall/ceiling.

@chrisb:
- I agree that it is going to be an optimization study based on the size of the room but I want to try anyways. Hopefully, with umik-1, REW and some acoustic treatments it is going to sound good to my ears.

- I am planning to be visiti some friends in Boston and Las Vegas at the end of March or April and I believe I am going in the same direction as you; i.e.
i. 3x alpair 10.3 drivers for R/L/C speakers
ii. 2x alpair 6.2 drivers for L/R surrounds + 4x pluvia 7 drivers for overheads
iii. (or) 6x pluvia 7 drivers for surrounds or overheads

After reading some more in the forums, I believe FHXL is a good enclosure for alpair 10.3 front left and right channels.

What type of boxes do you recommend for center (alpair 10.3), surrounds (either alpair 6.2 or pluvia 7s) and overheads (pluvia 7's)?

Also, based on your experience how much plywood would be necessary? In Ankara the prices are around USD 50 for 2440x1220 mm plywood (18mm thickness).

- Again, based on more readings and your recommendation, probably I will be looking for a Marantz Sr6011, if I found a good deal while I am in US. I have 2x 5kva 220 to 10 volt transformers at home so no need to worry about the 50/60hz 120volt issues.

I also own a Rotel RB-980BX stereo amp and an Onix Sp-3 tube amp with some good tubes and will be thinking to drive 10.3's with these. Do you think it will be OK?

-After having some very poor experience with surround sound systems in the beginning of 2000s I also have been using stereo systems. But this movie love is currently in front of music and would like to try again!

Cheers!
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Old 15th February 2018, 10:48 AM   #9
Lex vs Kingpin is offline Lex vs Kingpin  Turkey
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* Sorry for the grammar mistakes, I couldn't edit my earlier post.

For the enclosures:

1) FHXL: I believe necessary information for the plans can be found in the The Frugel-Horn website. I will be donating USD 10 to get the plans.

2) For the center channel using Alpair 10.3 driver, could it be this one: http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloa...reA-271114.pdf

3) For the surrounds and/or overheads, would 4.5 liters sufficient for Alpair 6.2's: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...lpair6M-GR.pdf I really like the slim design, the depth could be as low as 133 mm.

4) For the surrounds and/or overheads, would you recommend 9 liters or something else if I choose to use pluvia 7's: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/pdf/Pv7-9Ltrs.pdf

Thanks again.

Last edited by Lex vs Kingpin; 15th February 2018 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:37 AM   #10
Lex vs Kingpin is offline Lex vs Kingpin  Turkey
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Hello again,

Due to budget constraints I will be implementing 5.2.2 atmos setup.

I am at the verge of buying either set of speakers:

1) 3x Alpair 10.3 + 4x Pluvia 7; or

2) 7x Tang Band W5-2143

Subwoofers are dual infinity 1260w's and will be enclosed in a 240-liter box.

Which one do you recommend?

Best,

Last edited by Lex vs Kingpin; 9th March 2018 at 10:41 AM.
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