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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

3 Way Crossover - a first attempt
3 Way Crossover - a first attempt
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:42 AM   #11
cal16v is offline cal16v  Australia
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Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
It is difficult to say whether this is good or not but it appears to be a good start. You have only information from single driver measurements so there may be issues that can be partially compensated for, and these might be possible after listening and deciding how much they can and can't be compensated. The question of whether phase should be matched is also beyond this level of simulation. Then there is the question of whether the response should be flat in your room.
Thanks Allen,

I wasn't expecting to find myself with anything close to a usable xo TBH as this is my first attempt so it comes as a surprise. But if there is consensus that this creation has some merit or degree of promise then it's worthwhile building. It very well may serve as a learning aid as I experiment.

I was hoping that the learned folk here would be able to determine what more this might need to be viable. Is there some more info I could provide perhaps? I haven't factored in any BSC and re room shaping, well I can't really comment. I'm merely happy to make a start, listen and then lean on the knowledge and experience of others here for further direction.

I hope that makes sense.
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Old 13th February 2018, 11:16 AM   #12
Keruskerfuerst is offline Keruskerfuerst  Germany
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C5 should be before S2.
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Old 13th February 2018, 12:29 PM   #13
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Originally Posted by cal16v View Post
I hope that makes sense.
It does. I think you should give it a try. To be fair, it might not be the way I'd do it but maybe that doesn't matter
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Old 13th February 2018, 05:22 PM   #14
gfiandy is offline gfiandy  United Kingdom
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Hi, as noted in earlier posts you only have 10dB of attenuation at tweeter resonance. This will likely cause distortion in the tweeter as you turn the power up.

I would recomend reworking the tweeter section with an extra capacitor so it is a third order function. It should be able to get better attenuation of the tweeter resonance. You might find this pulls the phase in a bit as well. Try to get the phase lines to overlap through the crossover region this way the drivers will add in phase.

Regards,
Andrew
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Old 13th February 2018, 06:34 PM   #15
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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3 Way Crossover - a first attempt
For a sim of how this might play off-axis due to driver phase matching, you can try this version of Xsim3D (still in beta). It lets you specify the position of each driver relative to the other drivers, and also can include off-axis simulation of each driver -- use a set of on and off-axis FRD files (if you have them) or you can simulate drivers' off-axis by assuming they are "pistons" based on active diameter with on-axis response shape superimposed. Dayton audio provides off-axis data file sets for some of its drivers, at least out to 45 degrees, and Omnimic has a neat facility for quickly gathering a series of off-axis response curves.

I think you'll see that driver positioning typically has WAY more to do with the off-axis performance than does the phase matching between the drivers. And the baffle effects (not simulated in XSim3D, at least not yet) will also have a lot to do with off-axis performance. For a depressing look at reality, turn on the floor and ceiling reflection effects in the geometric model and see why the "on-axis" response alone doesn't really much define how the speaker is going to sound.

Index of /Xsim/BetaTest
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Old 13th February 2018, 07:04 PM   #16
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
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Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
For a depressing look at reality, turn on the floor and ceiling reflection effects
I believe (but really can't say for sure) that this is where the d'Appolito configuration shines.
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Old 13th February 2018, 07:47 PM   #17
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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3 Way Crossover - a first attempt
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Originally Posted by Mrcloc View Post
I believe (but really can't say for sure) that this is where the d'Appolito configuration shines.
easy to check, model it. Actually, there's a simple model of that in the examples.

edit: beta version bug just fixed, re-uploaded..... there was a crash with some originally non-3D files loaded
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Last edited by bwaslo; 13th February 2018 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:20 PM   #18
cal16v is offline cal16v  Australia
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

So from what I'm taking from the posts above, 2 issues needed addressing based on the FR plot and driver curves;

1. Phase of drivers (not that I understand this completely )

2. Attenuation at the tweeter resonance freq

I have *fiddled* with a different circuit and have come up with this...

Appreciate the comments and direction from all.

cheers
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:22 PM   #19
cal16v is offline cal16v  Australia
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Oh, and while I'm here a big thank you to bwaslo for providing xsim
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Old 14th February 2018, 12:45 AM   #20
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
For a depressing look at reality, turn on the floor and ceiling reflection effects
It's revealing, isn't it .. Link. Fewer sources does tend to look dramatic.
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