In a T-line enclosure, maybe, I just don't have experience with that.
It's just because of how the driver is made - spring stiffness, damping, cone weight, cone material, etc. These physical properties give TS parameters, and it's just physics. Pro drivers are made for volume, not quality, and adding low frequencies is difficult when keeping power handling and sensitivity high.
You'll notice some immediate differences between pro drivers and hifi drivers
- Pro drivers have different surround to hifi
- Pro drivers have at least +10 dB more sensitivity for any given diameter
- Pro drivers have higher power handling than hifi drivers
- Pro drivers have smaller Xmax (distance cone can move linearly) than hifi drivers
These are clues to what I was saying.
It's just because of how the driver is made - spring stiffness, damping, cone weight, cone material, etc. These physical properties give TS parameters, and it's just physics. Pro drivers are made for volume, not quality, and adding low frequencies is difficult when keeping power handling and sensitivity high.
You'll notice some immediate differences between pro drivers and hifi drivers
- Pro drivers have different surround to hifi
- Pro drivers have at least +10 dB more sensitivity for any given diameter
- Pro drivers have higher power handling than hifi drivers
- Pro drivers have smaller Xmax (distance cone can move linearly) than hifi drivers
These are clues to what I was saying.
Are these bad things? Not sure why you'd say a worthy pro driver isn't of good quality? Some things can be choices before trade-offs.
Good starting point.
I think it is sensible to improve classic designs with modern parts and ideas.
Bargains are good, but an older JBL and the Radian 950 are not equivalent. They work best on different kinds of horns. The 2446 is the "old driver configuration" shown in the attached document:
http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/tn_v1n21.pdf
These older JBL drivers have very low exit angles, and so they are well suited to very big horns with long, slowly flaring throats. On a big horn, they can play down to 400 or 500Hz. See the Inlow Sound website for an example.
For a horn this size: you have to build it yourself, or pay a lot of money. They are not available in normal shops.
The Radian 950 has a much wider exit angle, like the JBL "new driver configuration", so it is more suited to shorter horns, with a more rapid flare. These horns are available in many more places and are usually a lot cheaper.
I built a 2-way with a big old compression driver driver: JBL 2445J. I started with a fairly big and long horn, and I extended the horn to be longer, and a better match to the JBL throat angle. It sounds great, but it could be better.
The positive aspects: big old compression drivers can go low (with a big enough horn) and they play very loud ...but this loudness capability is much more than you need for small scale (home) use.
The negatives: the narrow throat and narrow dispersion is probably bad for home use (I use mine outside, so it doesn't matter so much). They don't go past about 10kHz cleanly, so they sound different when the type of music changes. They weigh a lot. Replacement diaphragms are very expensive.
Smaller / modern compression drivers cost less, weigh less and go higher (cleanly). They don't go as low, but they work well with cheaper & smaller horns, that have wider dispersion.
...so I'd recommend a smaller / modern compression driver.
Lots of people have.
Look up 'econowave' speaker systems. These are 2 way systems that are similar to classic pro systems - but they are probably better optimised for home use. MANY have been built.
You can also try an image search with extra adjectives, like 'large econowave', 'Faital econowave' and 'deluxe econowave' to see if you like the look of them.
Some examples -
This one has an Eminence woofer:
Gainphile: S15 - Econowave DSP
This one has a Faital compression driver:
Red Spade Audio: Econowave deluxe
Many of these use B&C compression drivers:
Flex Your PCD Mettle: - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Here is is a (fairly local) example of a horn you could use (designed to work with a 1" compression driver and 15" woofer):
SEOS-15 - Horns by Auto-Tech
A different but also well documented set of designs is at this site. Most of them use Eminence and B&C drivers.
http://www.pispeakers.com/Products.html
The pi 4 build looks nice (easy but good). You could probably build these AND subs for the price of a Radian 950 system.
No, they're not bad things, but professional drivers are made for professional audio. In general, pro drivers are not made for quality (smooth and wide frequency response), but for loudness. This doesn't mean you don't get great quality pro drivers, but the cost and complexity to use these for home audio is something to consider.
I don't equate a wide bandwidth with quality. The higher Fs and lower Xmax work toward greater efficiency which reduces thermal modulation, and lower frequency response is a questionable requirement once room modes have taken control. The paper cones and pleated surround work well when the driver is to be used near breakup, such as when they need to be used where they begin to beam. Linear distortions can be fixed.
I agree - it's not a good choice of word. But smoothness of frequency response is a good quality.
They do have a place, though. They're super cheap. I've added one to a 15" acoustic guitar amplifier I built for a friend, and they're also useful in big bass guitar amplifiers. They add that bit of zing (or sparkle), and when padded down enough, they sound nice. But not for fidelity.
I am not seller
I am building spekers for myself
those cheap boxes will be full wood labyrinth based on real Thiele-Small parameters, not the fakes from manufacturers
I'm about 100% sure he isn't referring to you.
I wonder who he is referring to though.
Anyhow, in terms of pro audio, I've seen many companies sell this sort of cheap-built speaker, and it's great! I mean, it's not good fidelity at all, but they're affordable and do the job.
Hi everyone
Finally I made my choice
It will be radian 950 in tractrix 200 horn
And for low frequencies it will be acoustic elegance td15m in labyrinth enclosure
Now I need to choose super tweeter and crossover frequencies and orders
What super tweeter would you recommend?
I'm looking at fostex t90
What do you think about it?
Crossover frequencies : 800/10000 second order
Maybe there are better options?
Thanks in advance
Finally I made my choice
It will be radian 950 in tractrix 200 horn
And for low frequencies it will be acoustic elegance td15m in labyrinth enclosure
Now I need to choose super tweeter and crossover frequencies and orders
What super tweeter would you recommend?
I'm looking at fostex t90
What do you think about it?
Crossover frequencies : 800/10000 second order
Maybe there are better options?
Thanks in advance
Thanks
really liked system from this topic
5 way horn & Acoustic Elegance
but i think i won't need more than three ways because i don't need much lower than 50hz -3 db
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