Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Building my first speaker
Building my first speaker
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th February 2018, 01:52 PM   #21
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pretoria
In a T-line enclosure, maybe, I just don't have experience with that.

It's just because of how the driver is made - spring stiffness, damping, cone weight, cone material, etc. These physical properties give TS parameters, and it's just physics. Pro drivers are made for volume, not quality, and adding low frequencies is difficult when keeping power handling and sensitivity high.

You'll notice some immediate differences between pro drivers and hifi drivers
- Pro drivers have different surround to hifi
- Pro drivers have at least +10 dB more sensitivity for any given diameter
- Pro drivers have higher power handling than hifi drivers
- Pro drivers have smaller Xmax (distance cone can move linearly) than hifi drivers

These are clues to what I was saying.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2018, 05:34 PM   #22
Andrew1211 is offline Andrew1211  Ukraine
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Thank you
Really liked BEYMA 15B100/R , but it is discontinued
Maybe there are some woofers like this?
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2018, 12:56 AM   #23
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrcloc View Post
Pro drivers are made for volume, not quality, and adding low frequencies is difficult when keeping power handling and sensitivity high.

You'll notice some immediate differences between pro drivers and hifi drivers
- Pro drivers have different surround to hifi
- Pro drivers have at least +10 dB more sensitivity for any given diameter
- Pro drivers have higher power handling than hifi drivers
- Pro drivers have smaller Xmax (distance cone can move linearly) than hifi drivers
Are these bad things? Not sure why you'd say a worthy pro driver isn't of good quality? Some things can be choices before trade-offs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2018, 02:56 AM   #24
hollowboy is offline hollowboy  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 'straya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew1211 View Post
I want to begin with two-way system because i'm new and 3 ways may be too difficult for me
[...]
At first I wanted to build classic jbl system(for home use with tube amp)
Good starting point.

I think it is sensible to improve classic designs with modern parts and ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew1211 View Post
Hi
Hf jbl 2446+ 2360 horns
Lf jbl 2220 in original 4560 cabinets

[...]

There are few high end systems with radian 950 in my country
Now I can't decide to go with radian 950(1200usd in my country) or jbl 2446(I can buy in ideal condition for 400usd + horn 100usd)
Bargains are good, but an older JBL and the Radian 950 are not equivalent. They work best on different kinds of horns. The 2446 is the "old driver configuration" shown in the attached document:

http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/tn_v1n21.pdf

These older JBL drivers have very low exit angles, and so they are well suited to very big horns with long, slowly flaring throats. On a big horn, they can play down to 400 or 500Hz. See the Inlow Sound website for an example.

For a horn this size: you have to build it yourself, or pay a lot of money. They are not available in normal shops.

The Radian 950 has a much wider exit angle, like the JBL "new driver configuration", so it is more suited to shorter horns, with a more rapid flare. These horns are available in many more places and are usually a lot cheaper.

I built a 2-way with a big old compression driver driver: JBL 2445J. I started with a fairly big and long horn, and I extended the horn to be longer, and a better match to the JBL throat angle. It sounds great, but it could be better.

The positive aspects: big old compression drivers can go low (with a big enough horn) and they play very loud ...but this loudness capability is much more than you need for small scale (home) use.

The negatives: the narrow throat and narrow dispersion is probably bad for home use (I use mine outside, so it doesn't matter so much). They don't go past about 10kHz cleanly, so they sound different when the type of music changes. They weigh a lot. Replacement diaphragms are very expensive.

Smaller / modern compression drivers cost less, weigh less and go higher (cleanly). They don't go as low, but they work well with cheaper & smaller horns, that have wider dispersion.

...so I'd recommend a smaller / modern compression driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew1211 View Post
p.s. following speakers are available in my country:
B&C, faital pro, beyma, eminence
There is sale on Beyma 15P80Nd(350usd)
Have someone tried them?
Lots of people have.

Look up 'econowave' speaker systems. These are 2 way systems that are similar to classic pro systems - but they are probably better optimised for home use. MANY have been built.

You can also try an image search with extra adjectives, like 'large econowave', 'Faital econowave' and 'deluxe econowave' to see if you like the look of them.

Some examples -

This one has an Eminence woofer:
Gainphile: S15 - Econowave DSP

This one has a Faital compression driver:
Red Spade Audio: Econowave deluxe

Many of these use B&C compression drivers:
Flex Your PCD Mettle: - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum

Here is is a (fairly local) example of a horn you could use (designed to work with a 1" compression driver and 15" woofer):

SEOS-15 - Horns by Auto-Tech

A different but also well documented set of designs is at this site. Most of them use Eminence and B&C drivers.

http://www.pispeakers.com/Products.html

The pi 4 build looks nice (easy but good). You could probably build these AND subs for the price of a Radian 950 system.
__________________
This edit signature thingy is seriously hard to find
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2018, 05:42 AM   #25
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pretoria
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Are these bad things? Not sure why you'd say a worthy pro driver isn't of good quality? Some things can be choices before trade-offs.
No, they're not bad things, but professional drivers are made for professional audio. In general, pro drivers are not made for quality (smooth and wide frequency response), but for loudness. This doesn't mean you don't get great quality pro drivers, but the cost and complexity to use these for home audio is something to consider.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2018, 06:06 AM   #26
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
I don't equate a wide bandwidth with quality. The higher Fs and lower Xmax work toward greater efficiency which reduces thermal modulation, and lower frequency response is a questionable requirement once room modes have taken control. The paper cones and pleated surround work well when the driver is to be used near breakup, such as when they need to be used where they begin to beam. Linear distortions can be fixed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2018, 06:08 AM   #27
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pretoria
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
I don't equate a wide bandwidth with quality.
I agree - it's not a good choice of word. But smoothness of frequency response is a good quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2018, 08:39 AM   #28
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Yes, it surely is. I used to dislike those piezo tweeters and the inappropriately shaped and sized tweeter horns. I think it's poor design that accounts for the many nasty examples of pro speakers out there.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2018, 08:44 AM   #29
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pretoria
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Yes, it surely is. I used to dislike those piezo tweeters and the inappropriately shaped and sized tweeter horns. I think it's poor design that accounts for the many nasty examples of pro speakers out there.
They do have a place, though. They're super cheap. I've added one to a 15" acoustic guitar amplifier I built for a friend, and they're also useful in big bass guitar amplifiers. They add that bit of zing (or sparkle), and when padded down enough, they sound nice. But not for fidelity.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2018, 09:29 AM   #30
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
It also reminds me of a particular parts retailer that tries to supplement its pro driver sales by putting them in a cheap box, making poor driver matching choices, not crossing the woofers and not padding the tweeters. Terrible speaker.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Building my first speakerHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Building a box for 5.25 speaker really fun guy Full Range 5 11th December 2015 11:11 AM
Help with speaker building Danielklut Multi-Way 7 9th January 2013 08:37 PM
New to DIY speaker building (new or used?) OverRide Construction Tips 3 5th November 2011 11:02 PM
Need some help building my first speaker, please! ahl395 Construction Tips 4 6th November 2010 08:01 PM
3-Way speaker building tald Multi-Way 16 28th August 2005 04:58 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:44 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki