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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Should I modify ADS L570/2 or Yamaha NS 670 speakers?
Should I modify ADS L570/2 or Yamaha NS 670 speakers?
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Old 13th February 2018, 06:16 PM   #21
fatmarley is offline fatmarley  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Just slapping something together, and then fudging around with the cross-over later is certainly an interesting approach.
I admire your politeness.
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Old 13th February 2018, 06:50 PM   #22
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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I believe there is a simple explanation to this unusual development of a thread situation, and who knows, maybe we will find out eventually.
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Old 13th February 2018, 06:57 PM   #23
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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Location: I had a Déjà Moo - I've seen that BS before!
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Originally Posted by Lojzek View Post
I believe there is a simple explanation to this unusual development of a thread situation, and who knows, maybe we will find out eventually.
I honestly hope we do not.
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Old 13th February 2018, 11:38 PM   #24
Jimmy154 is offline Jimmy154  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Just slapping something together, and then fudging around with the cross-over later is certainly an interesting approach.
Probably, I was when I came up with it
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Old 21st February 2018, 09:17 PM   #25
Jimmy154 is offline Jimmy154  United States
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Well, I slapped it together
Major problem is RS270S-08 woofer in such a small box
Could not use Silver Flute, sounds are smeared together, was quite surprised to hear this
I'm going to add more stuffing and aperiodic vent in the back and or add some wood to the back and maybe bottom
The tweeter is AudioPur RT7040-03 -- 8 ohm
XT25 is generally better but AudioPur RT7040-03 has even more detail and separation of sounds. especially at low levels

I should have modded the NS1000 cabs when I had those a few years ago
oh well

I don't think I've come across mass produced speakers made this well
The drivers and especially the cabs are made really well

I think I will leave the attenuators and try to copy/modify Zaph's cross-over

I'm going to start with midrange cross-over and take it from there
I think I can get rid of R6; is that the only attentuation resistor?
Not sure about R14

I'm not sure where the 80uF caps came into play in this cross-over
I get a totally different value for the filters
I guess one is a notch and on is zobel or one is both
I have two 80uF caps but not 4
I think I have two 60 uF caps

Got lucky on the speaker and found two /a/d/s grills the right size
I forgot how hard it is to modify cabs
It's harder than actually building ones from scratch if you have nice/proper tools and wood

One summer I spent months modifying some Thiel CS3.5 cabs and then found out the sides and back where laminated particle board and through them out
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20180220_130149.jpg (978.5 KB, 93 views)
File Type: gif ZDT3.5-crossover.gif (7.4 KB, 92 views)
File Type: png Audes-75???-vs-B2006.png (43.3 KB, 81 views)
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Old 23rd February 2018, 01:42 AM   #26
Jimmy154 is offline Jimmy154  United States
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Can I use Rifa Miniprint MP Metallized paper caps for 80uF caps and .3uF caps?
Tweeter cap values don't seem to be ones that I can calculate
I would use 4th order for tweeter but I don't know if 180 degree phase will have verse consiquence, so I will stick with third order for 8 ohm nominal impedance
Woofer section I won't really change
I don't seem to get anywhere close to 80uF for the zobel filters in any calculator

I added more polyfil and woofer got better, I think it just needs aperiodic vent and it will be okay
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Old 23rd February 2018, 12:58 PM   #27
TMM is offline TMM  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojzek View Post
I believe there is a simple explanation to this unusual development of a thread situation, and who knows, maybe we will find out eventually.
Little understanding of crossover design, therefore resorting to component swapping and subjective evaluation of the results.

Harsh but true. That was me once upon a time.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 02:44 PM   #28
Jimmy154 is offline Jimmy154  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMM View Post
Little understanding of crossover design, therefore resorting to component swapping and subjective evaluation of the results.

Harsh but true. That was me once upon a time.
It's not really an optimum project
Just takes a couple days

If I had time I would not use this cabinet the drivers or a passive cross-over
Figured this out about 20 years ago:
Crossovers

"The best crossovers ...
The best electrical crossover filter is one that maintains the acoustic polar response of a loudspeaker throughout the crossover frequency range as output shifts from one driver to the next. The sum of acoustic lowpass and highpass outputs must have allpass behavior without high Q peaks in the group delay. The highpass filter section must attenuate out-of-band driver terminal voltages at a sufficiently high rate so that cone excursion decreases with decreasing frequency and nonlinear distortion is minimized.

The crossover must be inaudible

The crossover must be inaudible on program material. This also implies that the power response of the two drivers must be similar in the crossover region, and that requires special attention during the loudspeaker's concept and design phases.

Crossovers may be implemented either as passive RLC networks, as active filters with operational amplifier circuits or with DSP engines and software. The only excuse for passive crossovers is their low cost. Their behavior changes with the signal level dependent dynamics of the drivers. They block the power amplifier from taking maximum control over the voice coil motion. They are a waste of time, if accuracy of reproduction is the goal.

Accurate Stereo performance tests SL - October 2009"

Although I would say it sounds pretty good.
If I wanted cheap drivers that are good to improve on this design I would go all HiVi
only cheap drivers I've come across that are mostly well built
HiVi AMT, HiVi ferrite mid-dome, and w10 woofer or similar
The middome lets you use a AMT and they are wonderful especially for low level listening, but XT25 is detailed too, but not as much
People rave about symbols and I can see what they mean
Very enjoyable even at low volume

I wanted drivers with grills and I just bought what I could get on the forums

This is one of the few vintage speakers (and NS1000) where you could keep the drivers and it will still sound good, although I would never use a vintage woofer
With possible exception of some JBL woofers, i.e. 123a

Braun L710 sounds similar, if you can find a good one
ADS maybe has nicer drivers, but cheaper cabinet I would say
Vintage ADS drivers are mostly well vintage, but nicely made
I would not be surprised if you just changed the middome in the ADS with $25 HiVi feritte mag middome and it would sound better to most people

Didn't mean to turn this into discussion about vintage drivers
But some one brought it up because I asked an open ended question and then kept harping on the same points over and over again like he was a genius that knows more about vintage speakers than I do, even though he'd be hard pressed to name a vintage speaker I have not come across

Vintage stuff is nice, but I don't want it
I would not drive a 1982 corvette even in 1982, maybe 1982 Porsche, but makes no sense to drive one today
Makes no sense to drive a 2018 Corvette either
I got pulled over once going 100 MPH once, I nearly got shot and a Camry goes faster than that anyway

I mean I understand when you get you have nothing going for you other than money and a sports car, but driving a Porsche/Corvette going 70 MPH on the highway you look kind of weird
Maybe certain kind of chicks dig it, I don't know
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Old 24th February 2018, 09:02 AM   #29
fatmarley is offline fatmarley  England
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If it wasn't for this thread I would never have realised how easy it was to upgrade all those old fashioned speakers.

Think I'm going to get some vintage Tannoy monitor golds, Yamaha NS1000 and a pair of LS3/5A and shove some new drivers in, make a quick crossover using an online calculator and sit back with a smug feeling whilst listening to my favourite tunes.
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Old 24th February 2018, 02:28 PM   #30
Jimmy154 is offline Jimmy154  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmarley View Post
If it wasn't for this thread I would never have realised how easy it was to upgrade all those old fashioned speakers.

Think I'm going to get some vintage Tannoy monitor golds, Yamaha NS1000 and a pair of LS3/5A and shove some new drivers in, make a quick crossover using an online calculator and sit back with a smug feeling whilst listening to my favourite tunes.
You're welcome

Wasn't suppose to be a thread about vintage speakers at all
But I guess you guys are the experts, even though I would be shocked if anyone here has listened to a fraction of the vintage speakers I have

I've noticed generally speaking the people most likely to give you advice are the ones that are the least competent/knowledgeable
One of lifes' hilarious ironies

Go see this thread: What is the Universe expanding into..

People literally know what's going on in the universe
And this forum actually has some of the smartest people I have ever run across on internet forums

Anyway I'm down to finding the 80uF caps, everything else I have
The woofer section I will keep the same
Not using online calculator, going to adjust Zaph's values to 8 ohm tweeter
So half the cap values and double inductor for the tweeter
R4 and R6 I'm getting rid of because I have attenuators

Any advice on cross over appreciated
If you have opinions on vintage speakers, feel free, makes me lol if nothing else
Maybe you can add some more vintage car metaphors, those are simply delightful
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