Console?

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thank you

It sounds like an offset tweeter would make sense i think you could get the three speakers closer that way. I would not mind at all an mt design in a bookshelf speaker. but I cannot find one using these drivers and I do not know if I feel comfortable designing my own. attached is an idea of what I am thinking with the front doors removed.
 
So i was listening to the ba speakers in the bow window and realized that if I keep the speakers next to the wall or in the window the bass will be big and bad emphasis on the bad. So what would happen if I built the Odins skipped a mid left the tweeter below the woofer and sealed it using the same crossover. I know now that the bass is going to be an issue. the thing is I can keep my listening position at about a third of the room

thanks

be
 
right now I have a pair of superzeros a foot apart and a class d sure amp to hear the tv. imaging leaves a lot to be desired.

Re width, you answered your own question ;). Historically, narrow consoles placed speakers either angled outward or side firing with 'wing' reflectors to 'fan' their output over the desired arc. Bass was usually a woofer [what DVC drivers were originally designed for AFAIK] or two mounted on the rear to use the wall for preloading and dispersion.

GM
 
Thanks GM I woke up last night thinking about the superzeros. Huge bass is not important neither is playing super loud. my wife wants to be able to put an album on or turn the radio on or play a cd. This all started because she brought me an ad for a walmart crosley all in one that she wanted to buy and I saw the opportunity for diy. I spent a little time on Daves website and it looks like there may be options for a narrow full range. or maybe the super zeros close to the wall will work. I even spent some time looking for drivers for L. Olsons ME2 which started me down the diy path years ago. I was originally hoping for a all in one type console using the stuff I already have or some console speaker placement wisdom like you are pointing out angled firing or wing reflectors. We even very seriously considered buying a console but it was a 6 hour drive round trip. I still think the best looking option would be a true console but keep coming back to speakers that can be raised to ear level to get a better stereo image. Still need to give this more thought it will be a one shot deal. thanks again

Ben
 
Yeah, the A40 was never the bass monster of the early Boston line - that title would have gone to the A400.

Ben - have the surrounds been replaced recently on the A40's woofers? That model is certainly of a vintage that the foams could be seriously deteriorate enough to effect their performance. They don't have to rot right through to sound like crap.

Would a shallow wall mount enclosure possibly pass the WAF test? As the use of a console suggests to me a fixed position and less than critical listening, a wall mount could certainly allow greater flexibility of placement, as well eliminate Baffle Step Loss. There have been several good designs posted here using 4-5" full range drivers that might be worth looking at.
 
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Hi Phivates, The Marantz is only playing on one channel while I await a new multimeter. I was running from the tv to the amp section of the Marantz so the loudness should not have been a factor. in fact to hear the dialog better we have the bass turned down quite a bit. I think another reason Console are no longer made is remotes and cd players. The front of the unit has to show for the remote to work and the cd load from the front. So we want to keep the unit only about 14" deep I am thinking about putting the marantz and tuner in from the top and build in the dual turntable. Maybe putting in one shelf below the dual for a cd player. Aux 2 can be used for pc music. I am thinking about a large radius in baltic birch to get some feature and that same look could be copied to the speakers. thank you

ben
 
thank you ChrisB a wall mount speaker may work we wanted to keep everything under the bow window but there is room under the tv and next to the couch on that wall it may work the wiring would have to be inwall not impossible . i did replace the surrounds about 6 years ago. thank you

Ben
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
... a shallow wall mount enclosure possibly pass the WAF test?

Coincidently Scott & i have just finished working up a wall-mount/wall adjacent ML-TL for the Alpair 10p/10.3 (original intent was they would sit on the floor with a small base). We are talking about doing a smaller one for the A7.3 and a larger one for the A12.2p. Maybe a giant one for the A12pw.

http://wodendesign.com/planset/Poplar-A10x-MLTL-teaser.pdf

If they prove popular, maybe more.

As has been done with similar designs, a nice print can convert these into a (thick) piece of artwork.

dave
 
Ben - there are IR extenders available that allow for operating pieces to be located behind closed doors / lids, etc. I've not used one recently, but did about a dozen or so years ago when the IR sensor on one of my early Denon surround receivers was blocked by the frame of a glass door.
 
Hi Dave I was wondering if there is a document somewhere that discuss the advantages and disadvantages of full range speakers. I have never heard a full range system and was wondering what the strengths are.
thank you

thanks Chris I do remember those. I had some they may still be in a box somewhere have not thought about them in a dozen years. thank you I think for this project I am going to try to get the marantz going again the Premire stuff would need a 20" deep case and I would like to keep this just big enough to fit the turntable in. twice now You and I are also putting messages in at the same time.

Ben
 
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frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
strengths of a good one are coherency… everything coming from the same place, no XO screwing things up. Typically a smaooth impedance curve that works nicely with single ended designs and their typical low power output. Usually less expensive and certainly simpler.

Downside is that it is very hard (almost impossible with current tech) to cover 20-20k, but if one looks at multiways a vanishing low number cover that range either. The best FRs can do 9-9.5 octaves pretty well. A biggish driver that does bass will have issues with HF dispersion, small drivers with good dispersion have limited bass. Maximum volume levels are usually less.

There are growing numbers sedcued by what a good FR is capable of… everyone should try one on.

dave
 
hi all...some console thoughts.

a few points regarding consoles...

Like many, our family had a late 60's TV/stereo console. I can't recall the name of it, but it had a (typical POS) BSR changer in it. I currently have 2 consoles:
  • a Philips (Holland) small 6BM6 tube based receiver and Phillips drivers, Philips changer
  • a Large Electrohome transistor based design with a Voice of Music changer

The little Philips could be something to try to re-create. It's only 45"L x 16"W x 26"H (including 5" feet). And that's including the speakers (I'll have to look, but I think they are FR 8" Philips drivers). If you found something like this, you'd be a long way to console bliss. If top end isn't great, a "helper" tweeter could always be added.

I've also designed a modern console that was intended to re-create the old ones using modern components: TT; cdp; tuner; integrated amp (or receiver); and speakers using similar dimensions.

If a modern pair of 2-way speakers using third order crossovers are set to slide into a cavity, then a normal polarity hookup can produce a tilt to the response of the system that can offset the potentially short height to the tweeter.
 
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So you could use your A40 as the low end of a WAW/FAST and pick one of several 3-4 inch WR/FR bits from the menu. And there are folks lusting after your AR-10 pair should you choose to let them go.
What you gain is clarity in the vocal range, which is also where the essence of all music lies.
 
thanks Dave

Cant really hear 20- 20k anyway So many years of factory work before hearing protection was used. for me it is all about the instruments in space and not moving around the room. then midrange, then cheap. should be able to play some rock and roll sometimes. would like to have enough bass for cello. a drum should not sound like a toy drum. I think the trick will be getting speakers in or attached to a console to image. So on your site there are boxes for different full range speakers you mention used drivers on your site are any drivers that you may have used in good condition that would be a good fit? The work that you and Scott moose did on the small thor was fantastic by the way literally every time I fire them up I am amazed. It did take several weeks of moving them around to get them in the right place. I will not have that luxury with these.

thanks

Ben
 
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frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
for me it is all about the instruments in space

Very important for us too. The console might well get in the way of some of that — if the front baffle could be proud of the middle of the console you might get away with that. You want to listen to them off-axis, we typically fire them straight ahead.

I’d guess that A10p or A10.3 might best suit. They give up a bit of top — sounds like you could care less about that — with more bass potential.

One of the clues we use to quickly tell EnABLed vrs stock drivers is the collapse of the 3D soundstage when switching away from the EnABLed drivers.

An adaptation of the ones i’m currently listening to might suit — the near wall ones would be too skinny i’d guess.

Mar-Ken10pTT.jpg


I haven’t drawn the easier to build 17 litre CGR for these yet, i’d be interesting in providing plans for a beta build.

dave
 
thank you

that is the phillips console we were considering but it is too far away. The size is right in there. I am going to try to use the marantz for the integrated. run it and the tuner with the faces up like the old consoles. leave an opening low under the other components for the cd and an opening under the tt for a few albums. the speakers in my mind are the -challenge - part of the console on integrated shelves or as separates that are made to look like they are part of the console. The choice I would like to make is the one that will sound the best as defined above. Not spending much money is a priority too. It would be great to spend about as much as that crosley but I am sure it will cost more than that. a I would like to use what I have but I do not think it will work well. the BA maybe ok but have never been a huge fan of those speakers. I also made a mistake on the ar. i thought that was what I had tucked away but it was the B A. thanks again for all the help.

Dave would a smaller speaker work would the close wall placement not add to the bass enough to go to the next size down or would we start getting into the superzero bass speaker level. thanks
 
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