high sensitivity 2way

[rebojorge]

Hi... I am looking into high efficiency Midbass/woofer drivers for a 2way or a MTM/TMM/2.5 way (as to increase efficiency)

I will be driving them with a par of Zen V4 (in the making) running them bridged.

Some of the drivers I have as options:

- Vifa P21WO-20 8" Fs 28Hz SPL 91dB
- Peerless 850490 HDS 8" Fs 30Hz SPL 91.2dB
- Peerless 850136 CSX 8" Fs 28Hz SPL 89.5dB
- Audax HP210G0 8" 6ohm Fs 32Hz SPL 92dB

Any comments on these drivers and suggestions on others that I have surelly overlooked are apreciated.

As far as enclosure type and dimensions, I am leaning towards closed baffle or proted enclosure, due to simplicity of construction.

Thanks everyone!

 

[454Casull]

Have you considered the option of using horns?

 

[till]

without horns 89.5dB speakers will not get high senitivity.

Have a look at this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6164&highlight=


else i suggest a J Low: http://www.passdiy.com/speakers.htm

I made this: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=264681#post264681

 

[sreten]

Bridged amplifiers into 4 ohms, are you sure ?

given an TM is likely 8 ohm, TMM/MTM 4 ohm.

All high efficiency drivers are better ported.

I'd go with the latest Audax, HM210Z12.

The GO is no longer available except from Maplins in the UK.
(Mexico might be quite different)

For bridged checkout the KLS9 hifi-world design, uses the GO.
Enclosure volume here is near maximum, smaller designs are
easily possible, e.g. ~ 40litres with port retuning.

sreten.

 

[rebojorge]

fast replies!!!

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is that I want to spend between 200 and 300 dlls on the drivers. (inc. tweeters)


casull:

Yes, I have considered horns, but I want to keep construction simple if possible.... I am willing to give them a try if horns is the way to go


Till:

Thanks,... I will take a look at those links


Sreten:

"Bridged amplifiers into 4 ohms, are you sure ?" .... NO, ...is there a problem?

" I'd go with the latest Audax, HM210Z12.

The GO is no longer available except from Maplins in the UK.
(Mexico might be quite different)"

I was thinking in getting the GO at partsexpress.... I will take a look at HM210Z12



Thanks.... keep them comming!

 

[Tim Moorman]

High Efficiency

For new stuff, have a look at B&C, Selenium, Fostex and Eminence.

Used, check JBL, Aletc, Klipsch and Electrovoice. Goodman and Tannoy also.

The simple two-way with an Altec woofer and 802/902 driver with horn is quite common.

Another great combo to my mind is using an Altec 414 12" in a 112 liter ported box with a Heil ribbon. Planet 10 posted here in another thread about the Heil ribbon.

Many just build a simple rear horn and load it with a Fostex full range driver. The plans are on Madisound's Fostex page.
Though limited at either end of the spectrum, they can be very nice through the mids. Probably the cheapest alternative if you can build your own box.
Otherwise, a Fostex on an open baffle with a bass unit under may provide the needed bass requirement and works well as a simple 2-way.

Tim

 

[till]

what i want to try is a 604 duplex, if i find one. http://www.retroaudio.ru/speakers/Altec 604-8G.shtml

 

[sreten]

Sorry I was getting confused about the various Audax 8" drivers.

The Audax HP210G0 is available from PE at a very good price.

The KLS9 uses the HM210ZO, which has been replaced by
the HM210Z12, and is becoming hard to find, but Zalytron
are still selling it.

Simply put 4 ohm bridged is the same as loading each channel
with 2 ohm, 8ohm bridged is the same as loading each channel
with 4 ohms. For 4 ohm bridged you very good drive into 2 ohms.

sreten.

 

[macky888]

You should take a look at the Pi Speakers offerings. Both bass reflex with HF horn and high eff woofer and full cornerhorns are available, in either completed or kit form with sensitivities very near or at 100db 1w/1m (meeting your high sensitivity requirement).

Prices at http://www.pispeakers.com/Prices.htm

You get everything with the kit inclulding crossovers and cabinet plans or horn plans depending on what model you look at.

They are all 2-way's using high sensitivity professional woofers with 1" or 2" HF radial horns/compression drivers.

A full corner horn kit using 15" woofer and 1" HF horn @ 101db 1w/1m is $240 is one example there.

Go to the Pi Speakers Forum and post there if you want to know more about these speakers.

Adrian

BTW: Before anyone jumps in, I'm not selling Pi Speakers myself or advirtising for them I am just suggesting a high efficiency option which satisifies the original posters criteria and wanted price range of $200-$300.

 

[rebojorge]

Ok.... after some silence and some browsing... I am leaning towards the 8" Audax GO... but, still not sure. I took a look at those PI speakers and they do seem hi efficiency.... Has anyone heard them? or have any coments on them?

Also I am willing to consider some proven and well documented design... sugestions anyone?

One more thing.... Streten pointed out that it wouldn`t be a good Idea bridged amps into 4ohm speakers.. (MTM) ... but how about if they are conected in series, if I use the Audax which is 6ohms it would be a 12 ohm speaker...... Sreten? anyone else?

Thanks for the help.... I apreciate it.


..... almost forgot, my computer is a Mac running with OSX .... does anybody know of a simulation software like WinSID that I can use on a Mac?

 

[Cal Weldon]

what i want to try is a 604 duplex, if i find one.

Try the altec forum:

altec

Cal

 

[till]

Cal,

I frequently read the altec board. But 604 offered in the USA ( and most board readers there are from USA) will normaly not beeing shipped to europe. It looks very uncommon to send something larger than a letter from USA to other countries, as its about impossibel to find someone who sends a bunch of lightbulbs from US to all the starving Zen lite builders in Europe - check this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27898&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

For the bulbs i had to buy a flight ticket and obtain them in Mexico, maybe i have to buy a flight ticket to LA to buy a pair of 604 for a fair price. Would be also the chance to buy some ZVP3310 and some tektronix plugins there.

Trading parts seems to be more commone here - i just traded programmed mikrocontrollers for relay volume control against wine and one against a pile of signal switching realys.

 

[macky888]

I took a look at those PI speakers and they do seem hi efficiency.... Has anyone heard them? or have any coments on them?

Take a look at the archieves on the Pi Speakers forum at http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpeakers/ . You'll find a ton of people that have used 'em before, and everything you need to know about them to the last detail. Since the forum is dedicated to Pi Speakers run by the owner, you can post specific questions or comments there too.

 

[rebojorge]

Still have not made up my mind.... now I am looking at PHL 1240... it has high sensitivity and meets the freq. range requirements that I need... but it is 16 ohm.... Will this be a problem for de ZenV4.

Also there are a couple of things that nobody comented on.... about the two 6ohm Audax conected in series for a 12ohm speaker in an MTM arangement... and about some simulating software that I can use with a Mac G4

any help?
thanx

 

[head_unit]

try the Adire kits

Eminence makes some high sensitivity semi-PA-style woofers with a horn coming up the center.

Adire Audio then attaches their own compression driver and sophisticated crossover. Look at AdireAudio.com I think, if you can find the kits (HE12.2 or something) reply and I can find them for you.

Don't know how they sound, but I think this is one of the few ways to get medium high sensitivity without a horn. There are a few cone drivers with higher than average sensitivity, like from Audax, but in the long ago when I looked at that stuff the high sensitivity was achieved only in the midrange, not in the midbass region (meaning, even ported, the low end would droop).

With somewhat less sensitivity but still higher than average, you could use Alpine Type X car speakers. No, I'm not kidding, they are very sophisticated drivers codeveloped with Vifa/Scan-Speak. Look at Alpine1.com at the gorgeous crossovers, which do have a "flat baffle" setting available. That is what I am making next for my house...followed later by an all-AlpineF#1Status system.

 

[5th element]

Connecting the drivers in series will be OK except it wont give you 6dB incease of sensativity that parallel will give you. You will get 3dB instead. So if you have two 92dB you'll get 95 when in series. Factor into it bafflestep and you'll get back to around 90dB depending on how much you apply. Either way a REAL 90dB speaker is quite efficient. Most two way commercial offerings are quite insensative regardless of what their quoted sensativity is, thsi ofcourse is if they are TM and not TMM or MTM.

How many watts is the zen anyway? 32 watts into 90dB can get you about 108dB 16 gets you 105dB. The zen isnt really about max SPL anyway.

I have an old musical fidelity A1 at 20 wpc and this goes loud enough with 86dB speakers.