Dayton III's (3) MTM and PExpres Cabinet

[daschwa]

I would like to start this post off by saying yes I am new and yes I have searched the forums for an answer to my question...so here goes. Is it a bad idea to build the Dayton 3's using the recommended crossover and drivers, but putting them in the Parts Express pre made cabinet:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=302-750

The interior volume is close but again I am a novice and don't know if this is a bad idea. The reason thinking about going this way is that I am comfortable with the electronics, but do not have the tools to build the cabinet. Thanks in advance,

Dave

[asauer]

I think that the enclosure size should be about close enough, but you'd still have to cut out a port in the back and fit it all together. For $100 per enclosure ($200 total in RAW ENCLOSURES ) you're much better off to build your own...I am sure that there are many people in your area that would be more than glad to help you out, seeing as $200 for such small and simple enclosures is rediculous. I'm not sure how far away Bloomington, IL is from Decatur, IN, but I'd be glad to help you if I could.

[Jim85IROC]

$200 for enclosures of that quality is not an unreasonable amount. There is a tremendous amout of time that goes into making something of that quality. If I were to sell enclosures of that quality, I doubt it would be worth my time to sell them that cheap. Granted if you can make them yourself you can save a lot of money (and have a lot of fun), but if you're not equipped to do it, these are the next best choice.

As long as the volume is correct, adding the port is simple. Cut the hole, make sure the port is the right length, and slide it in with a little silicone around the edge to keep it there.

One thing that you're going to need some help on, assuming you don't have the tools/skills, is cutting the holes for the drivers. I'm assuming that you're going to want to flush mount them for a better appearance, which requires a perfectly round hole (usually cut by a router), and a rabbeted edge, which definately requires a router.

[sreten]

Perhaps the point here is if spending that much on
the cabinets you should be looking at spending more
on what goes into them.

They will also need a good pair of stands so we are talking
$300 plus the cost of the drivers & crossover and other bits.

I'd use blutack to fit the front baffle, 4 T nuts is
not a good way of holding in the baffle IMO.

I'd seriously consider a very good 2-way.

Dennis Murphy's Usher 2 way ?

http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=usher2way.html

sreten.

[daschwa]

Wow Thank You for all of the responses. I really appreciate the help/suggestions in my first speaker building crusade. I am pretty concerned with the look of the final product as I have a very particular girlfriend that would not approve of anything that does not look good. I have looked into some two-way designs and was originally was going to go this route, however started thinking that whatever 2-way I built would not be much of a change over from the speakers I currently have (Polk Rti-38)...considering the money invested. I need a speaker that has more low-end, as there seems to be a gap between my sub (Velodyne 10 inch) and the Polk's, despite have a 120 Hz crossover point. I also need them to handle decent power as I like to play it loud for extended periods of time. I am not against buying a router(lots of pawnshops around here, could probably get something decent for $50) for hole cutting, and practicing on some plywood to cut the holes, and I already have some decent stands. Also, since this is my first time, I would definately like to stick with a proven design. I listen to mostly modern and classic rock. Any other suggestions? Thanks again.

[Jim85IROC]

I ran into a similar problem when designing a system for my cousin's home theater. I don't have the time or ambition to build boxes that will look nice enough to compare to commercially available speakers of much lesser sound quality.

My only option was to set a budget including cabinets. This left me with VERY little for drivers and crossovers. Ultimately it looks like I'm going to be using a Seas coax or a Silver Flute/Vifa combo for the front 3 and getting cheap polks for the surrounds.

I would have loved to come up with a better alternative, but ultimately this is still the best this budget can buy. Compared to DIY alternatives it may not seem real appealing due to the huge box costs, but when compared to mass-market stuff, this is a substantially better product.

When I totalled the costs, it was hard for me to be happy with the value of this system from a DIY standpoint, but the minute I stopped using that viewpoint and simply concentrated on what the overall package is compared to the alternative, it looked a whole lot better. There's no question that daschwa needs cabinets for his speakers. Since he can't build them himself, they need to become part of the overall budget.

[Jim85IROC]

sorry about the post above. I wrote it before lunch, but didn't get to click "submit" until after daschwa's last response. My reply is already outdated.

Anyway... daschwa, I've got some further commentary to provide. Those polk RTi38s should have more than enough output to blend with any sub at frequencies well below 120hz. In fact, I would think that your blending problem is due to trying to integrate the sub at too high of a frequency. Those 38s shouldn't roll off until somewhere near 45 or 50hz. If you're running them full-range, plus running the sub up to 120hz, you've got a sloppy mess between 45 and 120hz that 2 different speakers are trying to compete for. Let the polks do their job, and just let the sub compliment their natural rolloff. Either that, or actively filter the Polks at the same frequency that the sub is filtered at.

Anyway, on to another issue that I want to address. If you are trying to improve upon the Polks with a DIY project, I think sreten's suggestion for a 2-way is a very, very good point. Just because the new speaker would use the same number of drivers as the polk doesn't mean that it's going to be equally inadequate. After you factor in the cost of the enclosures, your budget is going to be very small for drivers. You should consider quality over quantity. Although the usher 2-way is probably going to cost you considerably more than the DIII project, a less expensive 2 way can keep you within the same budget you've allotted for the DIII. The DIII uses $35 worth of woofer and $15 worth of tweeter. That's a $45 driver budget. With a 2 way, that means you can keep the Dayton tweeter and spend $35 on a much better mid, like maybe a Vifa P17 or some similar equivalent. But, there's another thing to consider. The 2-way will require a smaller enclosure (in most cases), which means you'll save money on the PE boxes. That's more money you can put into better drivers. Maybe you'll end up with a nice Vifa tweeter and a Peerless HDS midbass, or something similar. Your total money spent will be the same as the DIII project, but in the long run you'll have a better sound. Any of these projects will easily provide a flat response down to 60hz or lower, so integrating any of them (including your current polks) with a sub should be no problem at all if the sub is set up properly.

[Bill Fitzpatrick]

Given your circumstances I would go for the pre-finished cabinets. By the time you get through buying tools, wood, etc. and paying a pro for finishing (unless you do it yourself at even greater expense - spray gun, compressor, etc.) you'll have spent more. Of course you'll lose the pleasure of much DIY - which includes countless hours learning how to apply a good finish (a piano finish is not a walk in the park).

Consider, however, that your claimed gap between the sub and Polks may be something other than a lack of performance in the Polks. Room interaction, for example. Or improper crossover set-up.

[K-amps]

A word on those boxes: I have used those enclosures and I agree , those are high quality boxes. High gloss Lacquer finished. Very nice indeed. The pictures on Parts express website does not do justice to them.

Also they come in custom cartons that can be used later on to re-ship the finished speakers. (Which is often underutilized)

Also they baffle is replaceable, so if you wanted to scrap the Daytons and go with some other driver, you wont waste the whole box, only buy a new front baffle and re-fit it with new drivers or same drivers different configuration.

They are not cheap but they are well worth the money. If I had to make those myself, i'd spend 20 odd hours to complete them including the finishing, my time is definitely worth more than $10 an hour...

K-amps

[daschwa]

About the Polk setup...the crossover point is set at the receiver(Onkyo) and the sub crossover is disabled...so I am not mixing speaker and sub output. I have monkeyed with the different points many times but haven't found any settings that really "get it right". I have had the Polks in two different environments (physically & accoustically) and they have always sounded kind of boring to me so I'm looking for a change/upgrade. I have decided I will be purchasing cabinets pre-made and now must decide what design to go with. So it looks like I am left with two choices:

1. Go as I originally thought and use the Dayton III design in the PE box. If I do this, can I move the port to the front of the cabinet on the baffle? How much does port placement effect speaker sound? The purpose of this would be to drill the port hole in the replaceable baffle instead of the cabinet, in case I want to reuse the cabinets for a different setup.


2. Use a different design in a PE premade cabinet. Are there any driver/x-ver proven design setups for a PE cabinet? I am not experienced enough to design these setups myself...unless there are some good how-to guides/software out there that I am not aware of.

Thanks everybod for the patience with my questions.