Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Infinite Baffle Standmount
Infinite Baffle Standmount
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th January 2018, 07:37 PM   #1
diyricky is offline diyricky  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Infinite Baffle Standmount

Hi,

Some years ago I built these KLS14 World Audio speakers which were designed for small rooms; see attached pdf

Been pleased with their performance in my small home office room, just 8x9 ft, but as the cabinets need refurbishing , thought it might be time to look at upgrading, but have yet to find a modern infinite baffle design , at a reasonalble cost , that uses drive units that are still available , partic here in the UK / Europe.

Is there still such a design around , seems most diy designs and ready made units are all bass reflex which would probably give problems in such a small space ?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf kls14manual.pdf (183.5 KB, 83 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2018, 07:58 PM   #2
fatmarley is offline fatmarley  England
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cheltenham
There aren't many sealed designs around. This would be worth a look - LINK. It's a smaller woofer but very high quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2018, 08:25 PM   #3
diyricky is offline diyricky  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmarley View Post
There aren't many sealed designs around. This would be worth a look - LINK. It's a smaller woofer but very high quality.
Thanks but possibly a little too small, need driving hard ?

However, just after posting here I by chance looked in the Full Range section only to find XRKs 2 way design which might be perfect.
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 12:07 AM   #4
boswald is offline boswald  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Infinite Baffle Standmount
I don't know who told you that vented boxes have problems in small rooms, but any speaker could have problems in any room, if its implementation is inappropriate.
The main thing, since you like these but want new, is to keep the baffle step correction low as in what you have, so that when you put them in the same place, the bass doesn't kill you. The design you have has about 1/3 bsc(2db).
Just look for designs where the system output is 2db less than the woofer's own.

That said, XRK's low-crossed 2 way has its crossover near its baffle step, so it is very easy to adjust for a room and placement by adjusting the high range level, and the basic design makes it very easy to use a different woofer, it's simple to stay out of trouble when you cross that low.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 09:52 AM   #5
diyricky is offline diyricky  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by boswald View Post
I don't know who told you that vented boxes have problems in small rooms, but any speaker could have problems in any room, if its implementation is inappropriate.
The main thing, since you like these but want new, is to keep the baffle step correction low as in what you have, so that when you put them in the same place, the bass doesn't kill you. The design you have has about 1/3 bsc(2db).
Just look for designs where the system output is 2db less than the woofer's own.

That said, XRK's low-crossed 2 way has its crossover near its baffle step, so it is very easy to adjust for a room and placement by adjusting the high range level, and the basic design makes it very easy to use a different woofer, it's simple to stay out of trouble when you cross that low.
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Generally have read and been told by dealers that vented boxes are not ideal for small rooms, being told rear vents need to be placed well away from the rear wall and front ported ones can flood with too much bass and blocking the ports can result in a poor sound ....??

Thats why I thought the above KLS14 infinite baffle speaker was a good compromise, and it does seem to give a pleasant even sound though the drive units are a 20 year old design.

One of the biggest problem is finding a reasonably price design using modern drive units that can be purchased here in the uk or readily imported.

I'm no way into the details of speaker design and had to look up your reference to BSC, but am still looking to learn from this site etc.

XRK design does look very interesting, though its really a full range speaker with woofer rather than my conventional two way units.

Though a leap of faith, would assume it will give a better performance, would you say ? or could you suggest any other design that would be suitable ?

cheers
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 10:31 AM   #6
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
wesayso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
I'm still confused about the naming here, an infinite baffle on a stand.

I think you are looking for a sealed enclosure that can be placed near a wall (no full baffle step compensation, BSC). An infinite baffle would suggest an endless baffle with a driver mounted into it, pretty hard to put that up on a stand. Just thought you should know. It will make searching for what you want a little easier. There probably are enough sealed enclosure designs to pick from.

XRK's design is often called a FAST ("full range and subwoofer technology") or WAW ("woofer assisted wideband").
__________________
Use Science to design your speakers and they will sound like a piece of Art...
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 11:42 AM   #7
diyricky is offline diyricky  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
I'm still confused about the naming here, an infinite baffle on a stand.

I think you are looking for a sealed enclosure that can be placed near a wall (no full baffle step compensation, BSC). An infinite baffle would suggest an endless baffle with a driver mounted into it, pretty hard to put that up on a stand. Just thought you should know. It will make searching for what you want a little easier. There probably are enough sealed enclosure designs to pick from.

XRK's design is often called a FAST ("full range and subwoofer technology") or WAW ("woofer assisted wideband").
Sorry, Yes , do mean Sealed Enclosure, a lot to learn !
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 12:25 PM   #8
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by diyricky View Post
Generally have read and been told by dealers that vented boxes are not ideal for small rooms,
Because either they are ignorant, or the boxes were intended for freespace positioning. That does not mean that vented boxes are inappropriate for small rooms, just that you need one that is properly designed.

Quote:
being told rear vents need to be placed well away from the rear wall
Not true. It depends on the alignment of the enclosure, the exact positioning, and (to a point, although in most cases secondary to the first to) the construction materials of the room.

Quote:
and front ported ones can flood with too much bass
Utter drivel (not by you, by whoever told you that)

Quote:
and blocking the ports can result in a poor sound ....??
It can. But so can doing a heck of a lot of other things. Alternatively, it can improve things. This is entirely circumstance dependent, and if anybody claims a blanket 'yes / no', you would be well advised to ignore them as they are not competent to be passing comment on matters of acoustic design or behaviour. Likewise, the actual box loading is only one aspect of whether it will be well suited to near-boundary positioning and / or use in a smaller space.

Quote:
Thats why I thought the above KLS14 infinite baffle speaker was a good compromise, and it does seem to give a pleasant even sound though the drive units are a 20 year old design.
Sealed box. Technically an infinite baffle would be an infinitely wide & tall wall through which the drivers poked. The KLS14 should sound pleasent, it's a reasonably well designed kit of its type, using drivers that are still considered decent, with a slightly declining balance in the HF. And a low[er] Q sealed box like this will naturally tend to do quite well in smaller spaces. That does not, however, mean vented boxes cannot be used.

Quote:
One of the biggest problem is finding a reasonably price design using modern drive units that can be purchased here in the uk or readily imported.
'twas ever thus. And as a note -the 'modern' drivers in a lot of high quality speakers have been around a lot longer than you might think, and age is no guarantee of quality. Take the Scan D2905/9700. An exceptional tweeter, with a lot of features people would call 'state of the art' if it were introduced today. It was introduced about 25 years ago. And that's just one example.

What budget are we talking about here?

Quote:
XRK design does look very interesting, though its really a full range speaker with woofer rather than my conventional two way units.

Though a leap of faith, would assume it will give a better performance, would you say ? or could you suggest any other design that would be suitable ?
X's box is a good design of its type. Whether it will give 'better performance' though rather depends on your own preferences & how you define that. I suspect you'll like it, and it should improve on the old WAD kit in many ways, but like all speakers it is a balance of compromises, gaining some attributes at the price of others.
__________________
"'That'll do", comes the cry of the perfectionist down the ages.' James May -The Reassembler
www.wodendesign.com Community sites www.frugal-horn.com http://frugal-phile.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 02:24 PM   #9
diyricky is offline diyricky  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post

What budget are we talking about here?



X's box is a good design of its type. Whether it will give 'better performance' though rather depends on your own preferences & how you define that. I suspect you'll like it, and it should improve on the old WAD kit in many ways, but like all speakers it is a balance of compromises, gaining some attributes at the price of others.

Hi Scottmoose,

Thanks for your detailed reply, its clearly a minefield for those not in the know.

X's drive units would come out at about 300 depending on the source so that plus the build and XO costs was the kind of figure I was generally thinking of.

At the moment I'm running the original Arcam Solo so expect that limits things to a degree.

I had thought about What HiFis regular favourites like the Monitor Audio Bronze 2 or the Dali Spektor 2 as ready made units, but my above misinformed info put me off them, hence looking for a better diy design.

Now I'm not quiet sure ? would those ready made units be better than what I have now or would something like X's be a worthwhile enough improvement for the time and money to make them ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 05:38 PM   #10
boswald is offline boswald  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Infinite Baffle Standmount
2x the diameter of a rear port away from the wall is fine, so don't let that bother you.

The thing about a low-crossed 2 way like XRK's, besides easily adjustable bsc, is the use of widerangers that are very nice midranges, should you decide to add a little tweeter, either as a supertweeter, or more conventionally crossed at 2-3k as a 'normal' tweeter.

I would recommend that you read the faq section on Paul Carmody's site. Paul is a natural teacher(less glazing over by the pupil) You might also look at Paul's Hitmakers, pretty much what you are looking for, as long as you are willing to use less exotic-looking drivers, the bsc is about what you have now.

I don't think I would buy a commercial product new w/o a test in my room. A dealer you want to have would let you, he knows how to gain a long term customer.

Last edited by boswald; 15th January 2018 at 05:40 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Infinite Baffle StandmountHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Open Baffle vs Infinite Baffle. DrDyna Multi-Way 37 30th November 2017 09:20 AM
Infinite baffle argonrepublic Subwoofers 3 19th February 2016 05:31 PM
Infinite baffle Sub? Is it for me? JapanDave Subwoofers 23 24th September 2012 02:07 AM
Help with infinite baffle. Andrew S- Multi-Way 2 8th February 2006 03:53 PM
help w/ infinite baffle sub HIPCHECK Subwoofers 5 16th December 2005 12:19 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:11 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki