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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Visaton W200S + TW70
Visaton W200S + TW70
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Old 5th January 2018, 05:12 PM   #1
robert1111 is offline robert1111
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Default Visaton W200S + TW70

Hey guys I have been designing a speaker. I dont want to call it La Scala clone, because it is not. But it is using same drivers.

Since Im complete noob in speaker building, I wanted to show my simulations, and maybe you guys can help me out, if there is something completely wrong, or thumbs up, if it looks good.

Im a bit worried about the phase graph. Not sure how good it looks.

Not sure IF I want to use the tw70. I would like to try Monacor ht-22. But I cant simulate it. IT has a very similar graph to ke25SC, and This also fits my simulation.

Project file in .zip. And a few pictures, who just want a quick look.

Thanks
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File Type: jpg W200S+TW70.1.jpg (433.0 KB, 356 views)
File Type: jpg W200S+TW70.2.jpg (305.8 KB, 345 views)
File Type: png W200S+TW70.3.png (33.6 KB, 342 views)
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File Type: zip W200S TW70.zip (22.5 KB, 25 views)
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Old 5th January 2018, 10:47 PM   #2
gfiandy is offline gfiandy  United Kingdom
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It is OK, phase is not ideal but not massively out. I dont recongnise the simulator you are using does it include a offset delay from the tweeter to the woofer. If not phase could be worse in real design.

If you add a resistor to the bass capacitor you might find you can adjust the filter to bring the phase in over a larger part of the crossover. Going third order on the tweeter by adding another cap might allow you to get a better response and suppress the resonant region of the tweeter further.
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Old 5th January 2018, 10:50 PM   #3
gfiandy is offline gfiandy  United Kingdom
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I can recomend this simulator, it includes a SPL trace program so you can import data from data sheets by tracing it. So you could try the other drivers you are interested in. It is free!

Software
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Old 5th January 2018, 11:37 PM   #4
robert1111 is offline robert1111
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Thanks. I will try out the simulator. And play a bit more with the crossover.

This is Boxsim, and yes it includes offset of the drivers. If you want to see the whole project, you just have to download boxsim and load my file, that is in .zip folder.
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Old 6th January 2018, 01:02 PM   #5
gfiandy is offline gfiandy  United Kingdom
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It looks like Visaton have pulled BOXSIM from their site, all the info is still there but when you go to the download it takes you to an empty page.
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Old 6th January 2018, 03:13 PM   #6
robert1111 is offline robert1111
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Yep. Seems it is down.

I could not make it better. It was a trade of ofor better phase hiher up tradeoff vs lover phase and frequency response.

But there is a different crossover that I tried, and the phase looks better, not sure if I like the frequency as much, but it looks okey.
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File Type: jpg W200S+TW70.3 Different.jpg (514.2 KB, 294 views)
File Type: jpg W200S+TW70.3 Different1.jpg (398.1 KB, 280 views)
File Type: jpg W200S+TW70.3 Different2.jpg (123.8 KB, 47 views)
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File Type: zip Different.zip (22.2 KB, 4 views)
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Old 6th January 2018, 03:28 PM   #7
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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I have read somewhere that you can download Boxsim at www.boxsim.de
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Old 6th January 2018, 03:32 PM   #8
giralfino is offline giralfino  Italy
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Quote:
I would like to try Monacor ht-22. But I cant simulate it.
You can, you have to trace the FR and impedance graphs from the published ones and create frd and zma files. Then you can import them into boxsim. You'll have to estimate the voice coil position however.

Ralf
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Old 6th January 2018, 04:59 PM   #9
gfiandy is offline gfiandy  United Kingdom
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I downloaded Box sim, whilst it works it is really difficult to optimise anything in this as you cannot see the all the responses at the same time and you have to type a value in and await the recalculation. I ran out of patience before making any progress. However you really don't want a 2.2uF cap straight across the amplifier terminals, it will make the amplifier ring and if its poorly designed it might even go unstable.


The ViruixCAD simulator shows you all the applicable graphs at the same time, it includes an optimiser and you can adjust values up and down by selecting them using the mouse wheel to go up and down in value. This allows you to get a feel for how each component is affecting the response and optimise the crossover. It really would be worth effort to transfer the design over into it. If you have frequency files in text format it will open the ones you already have, but it might be better to trace the drivers you really want to use and if possible do traces of off axis responses as well this way you can get some insight into the off axis response. As well as the on axis or piston simulations which often don't behave like the speaker in break up. There is a useful manual with it.


I have attached an example I have been working on so you can see the user interface.
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Old 6th January 2018, 05:18 PM   #10
robert1111 is offline robert1111
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That does sound amazing.

And I must say your project graphs look perfect .

If I get more spare time, Ill definitely try that simulator out. Not sure about the frequency files. No drivers, no measuring equipment. Gotta figure something out.
I will look into creating neccessary files, based on published ones. Thanks.

Im stuck with those projects. I personally cant make them any better. Been fiddling around for 20 hours for sure . Sure I can remove the 2.2uF cap, it only affects impedance.
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