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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

RAAL ribbon with 4" midbass computer monitors
RAAL ribbon with 4" midbass computer monitors
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:49 PM   #1
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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Default RAAL ribbon with Scan midbass computer monitors

Maybe I should have title this thread "How would YOU choose to utilize the 64-10 OEM ???"

Because you MUST design the speakers around the RAAL ribbon. Not the more correct way of starting with the mid driver. This is because RAAL already has a partial xover built on to the ribbon, in the transformer. RAAL suggests 3000, others who have used it say no lower than 3400. This is ALL I can get from RAAL about the 64-10 OEM:


[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.RAAL4 by Cullen Graham, on Flickr[/IMG]


So now we know our xover point and slope for the tweeter. I'm thinking I may want to build a pair of upgraded Speedsters, using the RAAL. How would YOU go about building a pair of computer monitors under these situations ?

Last edited by Flaxxer; 6th January 2018 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 11:01 PM   #2
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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One thing to ask about is if the sensitivity of either is equivalent. If so, then go with the 8 Ohm version, as smaller cap values sound better, are less expensive, and require less bypassing. If sensitivity forces you to use the 4 Ohm version consider a pair of caps in parallel (like 2x 4.7uF) to achieve the equivalent size.

Raal is a huge fan of simple crossover designs, which is why he only recommends a single cap as a crossover. That doesn't mean higher order filters and higher crossover points are not possible, but it is not the pattern he wants you to listen to.

I also don't think you are that limited in midrange. You can pick any mid that goes past 3kHz, and in the 4" format there are a lot of choices. I know Raal likes Scanspeak, so you can't go wrong there.

Best,


E
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Old 2nd January 2018, 11:15 PM   #3
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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BTW, I am not sure what the Speedsters used, but lately I am entranced by the 5" FaitalPRO specs. Like the 5FE120. REALLY nice extension, would be a breeze to incorporate into your monitors, especially with the right stepped baffle.

Also, very nice power handling.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 11:20 PM   #4
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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OH, also, one last thing. The baffle step compensation of a desktop speaker is not the same as free-field / stand mount. Don't bother designing that until you have measurements in hand. You may get a few extra DB of sensitivity this way.

Best,

E
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Old 3rd January 2018, 02:04 AM   #5
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksquires View Post
OH, also, one last thing. The baffle step compensation of a desktop speaker is not the same as free-field / stand mount. Don't bother designing that until you have measurements in hand. You may get a few extra DB of sensitivity this way.

Best,

E
I've been fishing quite a lot lately. Trying to get a handle on this. But I'm not even considering baffle step. I can't design my own xover properly at this point. But I know for a fact the speedster is a proven design. I'm figuring I would build the Speedsters, minus the tweeter section of the xover, and use the RAAL with it's proprietary xover, and just adjust the volume levels independently with an AVR to balance the levels. THAT is about where my building level is at this point

I just REALLY hate it that I was given a pair of unobtanium OEM RAALs, and can not figure a way to use them. My thoughts were to get a woofer that needs almost zero help other than an inductor and a capacitor. I've read the 5.5 Rev is known for that.

Maybe I should blend it with these. They play nicely to 5000hz.


[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.Dynavox by Cullen Graham, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 3rd January 2018, 06:32 AM   #6
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Flaxxer,

I'm a little sad actually. I love this hobby and want you to as well. Rather than being frustrated, I really wish you would see this as a great learning opportunity. If that's not something you can do, maybe sell your tweets and make a fully-baked design.

Truth is, there's a lot to this, but I really find it fun and exciting and hope you approach it the same way. If you approach this as "merely" a way to save money I'm afraid you won't feel your investment will return.

Best,


E
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Old 3rd January 2018, 08:21 AM   #7
Bill poster is offline Bill poster  Thailand
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You need good sensitivity so maybe one of the smaller RS series kevlar/paper cones.
Rs150P perhaps?

Last edited by Bill poster; 3rd January 2018 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:33 AM   #8
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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Only problem, as you say, is that you can't design your crossover properly - because the task should be easy.

Tang Band 4w-1337sdf or Tang Band 75-1558SE should be easy to blend with RAAL 64-10. RS51AN should work to.

I wouldn't use anything above 4" because directivity od 10mm ribbon at 3KHz is quite wide.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 08:31 PM   #9
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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The RAAL datasheet recommends an LR4 circuit. I suspect an LR2 circuit would be "ribbon safe" for modest listening levels, but LR4 will protect the ribbon and reduce beaming and cone breakup with a 5" cone desired for a 2-way monitor.

CONSIDER: Using LR4/LR4 circuits at 3kHz to the Tang Band W5-2143 full range - very smooth SPL from bamboo fiber paper cone and soft surround.
-- 90db sensitivity
-- Fs = 55Hz
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File Type: jpg RAAL 70-10 crossover.JPG (84.3 KB, 219 views)
File Type: jpg RAAL W5_2143 quickie.JPG (147.1 KB, 221 views)
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Old 3rd January 2018, 08:42 PM   #10
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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LineSource, wrong tweeter.

You posted for the 70-10, but the OP asked about the 64-10.

Best,

E
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