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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

RAAL ribbon with 4" midbass computer monitors
RAAL ribbon with 4" midbass computer monitors
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Old 3rd January 2018, 08:02 PM   #11
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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for reference, high-pass filter in-place as seen on second amplitude graph/picture:

New Raal 64-10 ribbon?


I'm guessing an Audax HM100Z0 mid (depending on diffraction sig.) + a more efficient midbass driver..Dayton Audio PM180-8
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Old 3rd January 2018, 08:39 PM   #12
mlee is offline mlee  Canada
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Hi Flaxxer,
How far down the rabbit hole did you want to go? If you want to do passive crossovers REW outlines an impedance box that can be used to measure a drivers impedance over frequency (cost is minimal). Armed with this and a mic you could use the very good xsim program (free) to create crossovers.

If you could make a few measurements and post them to the forum, their are a number of people that could help come up with a crossover that would work but some learning curve is involved.

Requirements:
1. Choose woofer. Wideband fullranger might be good just in case things start to get hard.

2. Build impedance box.

3. Build enclosure, get the mid and tweeter spaced as close a possible.

4. Measure drivers impedance and frequency in enclosure and post to forum.

If you don't want that hassle of the above, pick a fullranger and do first order crossover around 5khz? Play with the tweeter polarity, one way will have a higher perceived tweeter level than the other, use that polarity. Then set tweeter level as per taste.

With that nice tweeter it would be great to do it justice though and create your first 2-way speaker! If you don't want to monkey around with an enclosure the parts express cabs are nice and you can probably get free shipping.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:56 PM   #13
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
for reference, high-pass filter in-place as seen on second amplitude graph/picture:

New Raal 64-10 ribbon?


I'm guessing an Audax HM100Z0 mid (depending on diffraction sig.) + a more efficient midbass driver..Dayton Audio PM180-8
That little Audax could measure better. I really don't like the ridges in waterfall:


AUDAX HM100Z0 (Mid-range 4", 8 Ohm, 80Wmax)

While the W4-1337SDF is somewhat better in that regard, but lower sensitivity:

TB SPEAKERS W4-1337SDF (Full-range 4", 8 Ohm, 50 Wmax)
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Old 4th January 2018, 02:20 AM   #14
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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The ripple's not bad for something that will be down in pressure almost 9 db before the ripple begins (..with a net 4th order LR). (..assuming 3.1 kHz for the crossover.) Decay before then is very nice and excepting the ripple and its consequence with decay, is still rather good at higher freq.s..

Even the directivity loss for the Audax mid. between 2-4 kHz should sum reasonably well with the tweeter.
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Old 4th January 2018, 02:24 AM   #15
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by Zvu View Post

While the W4-1337SDF is somewhat better in that regard, but lower sensitivity..
..and that's the problem.

On top of that there is the issue with respect to baffle diffraction - assuming a small box the rising response of the Audax usually results in an easier crossover. (..flat response is great for a wider baffle though.)
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Old 4th January 2018, 04:21 AM   #16
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
The ripple's not bad for something that will be down in pressure almost 9 db before the ripple begins (..with a net 4th order LR). (..assuming 3.1 kHz for the crossover.) Decay before then is very nice and excepting the ripple and its consequence with decay, is still rather good at higher freq.s..

Even the directivity loss for the Audax mid. between 2-4 kHz should sum reasonably well with the tweeter.
The xover is actually 3.4k. RAAL shouldn't cross lower.
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Old 4th January 2018, 04:50 AM   #17
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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I'm looking at Zvu's actual measurement with cap. ref. of 4.7 uf on 8 ohm tap.

-6db from average looks like 3.1 kHz to me.. how about you?


..and remember, we aren't talking about the high-pass filter of the ribbon (which we assume is set by the recommended 4.7uf cap) - rather the high-pass filter of the mid..
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Last edited by ScottG; 4th January 2018 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 4th January 2018, 06:10 AM   #18
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
I'm looking at Zvu's actual measurement with cap. ref. of 4.7 uf on 8 ohm tap.

-6db from average looks like 3.1 kHz to me.. how about you?


..and remember, we aren't talking about the high-pass filter of the ribbon (which we assume is set by the recommended 4.7uf cap) - rather the high-pass filter of the mid..
Oh, ok. Understood now.
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Old 4th January 2018, 08:25 AM   #19
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
The ripple's not bad for something that will be down in pressure almost 9 db before the ripple begins (..with a net 4th order LR). (..assuming 3.1 kHz for the crossover.) Decay before then is very nice and excepting the ripple and its consequence with decay, is still rather good at higher freq.s..

Even the directivity loss for the Audax mid. between 2-4 kHz should sum reasonably well with the tweeter.
The crossover point should be arround 3.5KHz. There are 2 ridges, one just bellow 2KHz and other is the main breakup. I am not worried about amplitude but about time domain because it rings only 9dB bellow fundament lasting almost 3 times longer than other frequencies in the pass band. If we are looking at distortions that are -40dB as relevant, why should we avoid to look at resonance ridges the same way - and they are much more detrimental to the sound.
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Last edited by Zvu; 4th January 2018 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 4th January 2018, 08:32 AM   #20
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
..and that's the problem.

On top of that there is the issue with respect to baffle diffraction - assuming a small box the rising response of the Audax usually results in an easier crossover. (..flat response is great for a wider baffle though.)
Why would lower sensitivity be a problem for computer monitors, that op said he wants to design ?

If easier crossover is the one with less components, than i say - it depends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
I'm looking at Zvu's actual measurement with cap. ref. of 4.7 uf on 8 ohm tap.

-6db from average looks like 3.1 kHz to me.. how about you?


..and remember, we aren't talking about the high-pass filter of the ribbon (which we assume is set by the recommended 4.7uf cap) - rather the high-pass filter of the mid..
I measured it's response in that small loudspeaker with recommended crossover just to see what Aleksandar wanted for us to hear. I listened that way for some time, then i changed it.
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