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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

phenolic ring tweeter (5oz magnet version):3,3uF or 4,7uF (see the picture)
phenolic ring tweeter (5oz magnet version):3,3uF or 4,7uF (see the picture)
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Old 30th December 2017, 04:50 AM   #1
Peters8 is offline Peters8  Italy
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Default phenolic ring tweeter (5oz magnet version):3,3uF or 4,7uF (see the picture)

Hi guys!
Could I have your precious opinions about a capacitors replacing on a pair of phenolic ring tweeters (the vintage version, with the 5oz magnet)?
As you can see in the picture, the speakers are very simple (but very well sounding): there's just a bad quality capacitor connected to the phenolic ring tweeter as cross-over.
The original capacitor has 3,3uF, but I own a pair of Mundorf EVO ALLUMINIUM OIL capacitors brand new with a value of 4,7uF.
My question is: can I replace the original 3,3 uF capacitors with the 4,7 uF Mundorf capacitors?
The specifications of these speakers are the following (if this can help):
crossover: 3.500 Hz/ 6 db per octave.
60-15.000 Hz +/- 3 db
40-20.000 Hz +/- 6 db
20 watt RMS/ 30 watt MAX- 4 ohm


So, what do you think about this replacing?...is it possible?
Thank you very much for your kindness.
Best regards from Italy!
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File Type: jpg telefunken tl 210 interno.jpg (66.6 KB, 217 views)
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Old 30th December 2017, 05:01 AM   #2
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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No.

However, for a very good sounding but bargain cap the Mundorf MKP. They are really quite good for the money, and probably as good as this speaker deserves. Around $7 each.

Best,

E
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Old 30th December 2017, 05:11 AM   #3
Peters8 is offline Peters8  Italy
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Thank you for your reply...but I already own the two 4,7uF Mundorf EVO Alluminium Oil caps, brand new.
In my opinion it is a shame to leave them unused inside a drawer.
For this reason I'm asking if I can use them to replace the original 3,3uF capacitors...of course only if you say that it is possible!
Thank you!
Regards
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Old 30th December 2017, 07:20 AM   #4
PeteMcK is offline PeteMcK
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of course it's possible, just not desirable... don't be a tightarse... buy the right MKP caps
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Impedance varies with frequency, use impedance plots of your drivers and make crossover calculations using the actual impedance of the driver at the crossover frequency
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Old 30th December 2017, 07:58 AM   #5
HorvathS is offline HorvathS  Hungary
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Hi!

The old electrolit capacitor has +20-50% value now, so you can use your 4,7uF Mundorf calmly.

I think all capacitors should replace after 20 years.

S
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Old 30th December 2017, 09:56 AM   #6
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Here's what I would do with a 4.7uF capacitor.

This possibly isn't the greatest speaker in the World. But an interesting start.

The old SEAS Njord kit. SEAS of Foss in Norway don't make these drivers any more.

But they make some serious current equivalents:
H1288-08 CA22RNX
H1212-06 27TBFC/G

Lot to like there. If I was you. I'd just build this design. We can sort out a better filter and a cone tweeter later.
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File Type: jpg SEAS Njord.JPG (17.8 KB, 185 views)
File Type: png SEAS Njord Filter.PNG (49.5 KB, 181 views)
File Type: jpg Modified_MA-R300MD_HT22-8.jpg (79.0 KB, 177 views)
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Old 30th December 2017, 06:46 PM   #7
Peters8 is offline Peters8  Italy
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thank you very much for your interesting replies.
However, I'd like to know what changes in the sound range (or in sound quality) using a 3,3uF capacitor instead of a 4,7uF capacitor.
Could you give me a reply?...I'm learning (at least I'm trying) with your help!
Thank you guys!
Best regards
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Old 30th December 2017, 07:19 PM   #8
globalplayer is online now globalplayer  Germany
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I think the crossover frequency will drop.
This will put more strain on the tweeter and might lead to overlap between woofer and tweeter also which will result in a freq peak.
The tweeter, forced to go lower will have more distortion and less power handling.
In theory.
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Old 30th December 2017, 07:52 PM   #9
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Hi Peter,

You cannot willy-nilly replace cap values without expecting a change. The larger cap will let more bass through, possibly increasing the chances of causing damage.

On the other hand, you may learn a lot, and your ears matter more than test and theory, so why don't you try them, since it seems the only answer you would be happy are is "YES." Listen and see.

If you want to learn how this could affect things, I suggest you grab a free copy of XSim, and create a crossover mockup with a blank tweeter, and try out two different cap values. This will show you how changing values on an 8 ohm tweeter will affect things.

XSim free crossover designer

And if you'd like to try it with a more complete schematic, try it with any of the speakers in this thread:

XSim - Crossover Lab for Newbies

Best,


E
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Old 31st December 2017, 01:14 AM   #10
phivates is offline phivates  United States
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4.7 is a common value for tweeter caps on simple loudspeakers. I'll be the old school rogue and say "Try it." The "presence" frequency range will be accentuated, but you might like it. Not such a big deal...
The upper midrange response of the mid-bass is what actually matters in these cases IMO. Or, what Eric says: get a real crossover.

Last edited by phivates; 31st December 2017 at 01:19 AM.
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