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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

DIY vs brand speaker
DIY vs brand speaker
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Old 26th December 2017, 04:16 PM   #21
dvjorge is offline dvjorge  United States
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Thank you for the advice. What I am looking with this idea is to build a pair of bookshelf speakers that sound better that what I own now. I really don't need speakers, so building cheap ones isn't what I am looking for. I have owned many entry level speakers such as B&W, Monitor Audio (still keep them) Paradigm, Epos, Mirage, Boston Acoustic, etc. However, they are entry level. I have never owned Dynaudio, Proac, Usher, etc. I am probably wrong giving too much value to the drivers (aspiring Danish drivers such as Scan Speak, Vifa, Peerles, etc) and more elaborated crossovers. I still don't know if the drivers play the biggest role or it is the enclosure, crossover, and tuning. In a few words, expending money buying top drivers don't offer any security the speakers will sound good, at least, this is what I am understanding.

Last edited by dvjorge; 26th December 2017 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 26th December 2017, 04:31 PM   #22
foreveryoung is offline foreveryoung  Viet Nam
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If you are looking for bookshelf speakers, you should better buy off-the-shelf products. They are good and not expensive enough for you to DIY.

From my experience, the good drivers are important for bookshelf speakers. However, you must match the drivers, the crossover, the enclosure, not to mention the amplifier, so it would be troublesome if you don't have time to do it properly.
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Old 26th December 2017, 04:41 PM   #23
A4eaudio is offline A4eaudio  United States
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Quote:
Can a DIY design rival a high end speaker?
The answer to your question is YES, and in many cases easily surpass a high-end commercial speaker.

Quote:
I still don't know if the drivers play the biggest role or it is the enclosure, crossover, and tuning
assuming you have decent to good drivers - the crossover.

Yes, there are some exceptions...someone mentioned a powered monitor with an aluminum enclosure, so yes if you really want an aluminum speaker that might be an exception, but it an exception rather than the rule.

Start here Speaker Bible

If you read enough of that, you will likely come to the decision to build a proven design.

One post did mention an important caveat, that building the cabinets can require space and tools. I have a garage and quite a few tools: table saw, table drill, router and router table, etc. Other than an aluminum enclosure, I can build a higher-quality and better looking cabinet than most high-end commercial speakers.

Many proven designs can come with full kits (including "flat pack" cabinets) - check out Parts Express, Meniscus, DIY Sound Group, and I'm sure many others.
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Old 26th December 2017, 05:12 PM   #24
silverprout is offline silverprout  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
Giving a passive speaker the tonality that you want is no easy at all! One must learn a lot of acoustics and electronics to do that, even by trial and error. And secondly many have noticed that they like different speakers for different recordings.
Small two-way speakers are easy to start diy with, but as mentioned, it is really hard to beat commercial products.
With tall multi-way speakers diy-benefit is maximal, but they also require lots of skill, that must be gained first...
There are many free loudspeaker design/simulation programs that are worth learning. We have also many free measuring software. We have some very good dsp-xo boxes that make active multiway speakers possible for those who are poor at mathematics like me!
It's a long and winding road! Wellcome along!
Some people may think that DIY loudspeakers are a waist of time and money because we must learn and buy more loudspeakers drivers than we really need and put some loudspeaker prototypes enclosures in the trashcan.
And at the end we exactly know why and how we've succeed.

The commercial loudspeakers that sound good in the shops also very often don't sound good in the customer room, therfore they buy and resell a lot of loudspeakers and also lost a lot of time and a lot of money... until they've found the right loudpseakers for their room.
They don't know why they succed at all.

Life is made of that kind of choices, every one is criticable.
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Last edited by silverprout; 26th December 2017 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 26th December 2017, 06:01 PM   #25
johnego is offline johnego  Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvjorge View Post
I still don't know if the drivers play the biggest role or it is the enclosure, crossover, and tuning. In a few words, expending money buying top drivers don't offer any security the speakers will sound good, at least, this is what I am understanding.
A better designer can make a better speaker with cheaper driver.

But when there is no issue with skill and expertise, top speakers can only be made with top drivers.

So make sure you know which designs to choose (definitely not your own).
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Old 26th December 2017, 09:09 PM   #26
Friedell is offline Friedell  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvjorge View Post
What I am looking with this idea is to build a pair of bookshelf speakers that sound better that what I own now.
Just to start practical: At what maximal dimensions are we looking here ?
Because dimension dictate maximal netto volume for the TMT and limit for
example the number of drivers from which can be choosen.
Also how are the speakers placed in the listening room ?
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:18 PM   #27
dvjorge is offline dvjorge  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A4eaudio View Post
The answer to your question is YES, and in many cases easily surpass a high-end commercial speaker.



assuming you have decent to good drivers - the crossover.

Yes, there are some exceptions...someone mentioned a powered monitor with an aluminum enclosure, so yes if you really want an aluminum speaker that might be an exception, but it an exception rather than the rule.

Start here Speaker Bible

If you read enough of that, you will likely come to the decision to build a proven design.

One post did mention an important caveat, that building the cabinets can require space and tools. I have a garage and quite a few tools: table saw, table drill, router and router table, etc. Other than an aluminum enclosure, I can build a higher-quality and better looking cabinet than most high-end commercial speakers.

Many proven designs can come with full kits (including "flat pack" cabinets) - check out Parts Express, Meniscus, DIY Sound Group, and I'm sure many others.
Thank you so much for the reference.! I don't have the tools to build the enclosures, however, I know a very good wood shop nearby that can do it for me, at least all the cuts and the router work. I can assemble the parts myself. Love to see pictures of those you have built.
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:32 PM   #28
dvjorge is offline dvjorge  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedell View Post
Just to start practical: At what maximal dimensions are we looking here ?
Because dimension dictate maximal netto volume for the TMT and limit for
example the number of drivers from which can be choosen.
Also how are the speakers placed in the listening room ?
I want to build sealed enclosures with 8" drivers. I have been looking to the drivers I can afford and the final decision should be one of these:

Peerless 830667 8" woofer
Scanspeak Discovery 22/W8534600 8" woofer

SB Acoustic SB 26ADC metal dome tweeter
Peerless DA25BG08 metal dome tweeter
Seas Prestige 22TAF/G metal dome tweeter

I am open to build any combination using those listed. A two way sealed bookshelf. They are going to be listened in a 15' x 15' room and placed around 1 feet from a wall. My budget is around $600 for all. The wood work will be done by a good carpenter who has a shop nearby me.

Thanks for all.

Last edited by dvjorge; 26th December 2017 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 27th December 2017, 12:09 AM   #29
gigigirl is offline gigigirl
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Wink Easy to beat brand speaker

The answer is YES,YES YES.
Years ago I upgraded a pair of Kef 104 by simply cross bracing, glueing the bottom front panel that was not fixed to it could flap on heavy base notes & bi-amping the speakers. These speaker her cost over $8000 at the time
I subsequently made a clone version of the 107 using a 10 & 12 in subwoofer / cabinet & a separate cabinet containing a paper cone mid and a (middle of the road) tweeter, this pair cost $1000 to make but easily outshone the 107's
Next & I am still using these speaker I developed a further re-incarnation using 12 inch sub in a 6th Order Bypass cabinet. A Chinese pair of 5'" mid's and a Fostex tweeter, again further improvements. This design cost around $800 to put together. I had thought about selling these as a commercial design & a local Hi-Fi retailer auditioned them & estimated he could retail them for around $6000. Unfortunately the Chinese manufacture deleted the mid's from his catalog range & I could not get him to change his stance.
The only area I plan to revise in the near future is the base speakers & cabinets, as base speaker have made the biggest advances over the last few years
Remember in Hi-Fi the cost of manufacture to retail price is normally 10x & can be with boutique brands as much as 100x.

Cheers

Last edited by gigigirl; 27th December 2017 at 12:12 AM. Reason: added more info
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Old 27th December 2017, 12:15 AM   #30
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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DIY vs brand speaker
Quote:
I upgraded a pair of Kef 104
You must mean a pr of KEF104 Reference series or some such. KEF 104s were well under $1,000/pr new when i was selling them.

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