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How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn
How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn
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Old 3rd December 2017, 12:57 PM   #11
EarlK is offline EarlK  Canada
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Really! I for one always enjoy reading about Patricks explorations.

I happen to really like the inquisitive mindfulness of his threads.

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Old 3rd December 2017, 01:36 PM   #12
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Click the image to open in full size.

If you were to push down the bulging sides, pull it up near the throat, it starts looking more and more like the M2...

Nice work by the way!
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Old 3rd December 2017, 04:18 PM   #13
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICG View Post
Why not using something someone already made?
The thing that got me interested in the progressive transition waveguides was that they combined the incredible polar response of an oblate spheroidal waveguide, but with superior impulse response.

IE, if you want absolutely stellar polars, it's difficult to beat an OS waveguide. For instance, I've never measured anything that has better polars than the big QSC waveguide.

I built a LeCleach horn a few years ago and it had excellent impulse response. But the PT waveguides seem to be a mix of both: excellent polars and excellent impulse response.

As for why I 3D print them, well that's because I like Synergy Horns!

I use Autodesk 123D for all my stuff.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 04:33 PM   #14
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Click the image to open in full size.
Here's the waveguide that you get if you use four cones instead of four hemispheres

Click the image to open in full size.
If you slice the waveguide in half, you can see that the profile is fairly similar to oblate spheroidal. Basically the walls are largely flat and there's a huge roundover at the mouth.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 05:06 PM   #15
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Here's what things look like if you use pyramids for the waveguide, instead of spheres or cones. I think the results are kinda 'meh.'

Click the image to open in full size.
Things improve a little if you truncate and smooth the waveguide. Still kinda 'meh'
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Old 3rd December 2017, 05:30 PM   #16
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
The thing that got me interested in the progressive transition waveguides was that they combined the incredible polar response of an oblate spheroidal waveguide, but with superior impulse response.
I don't get how a good polar response does not provide an equally good impulse response.

Why not just take your sphere and rotate it around the circular aperture, like a donut. Your design will have failing polars along the diagonals. The rotated sphere won't.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 05:33 PM   #17
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Things improve a little if you truncate and smooth the waveguide. Still kinda 'meh'
It sounds a little like your judgments are based on how they look, not how they perform. Shouldn't form follow function, not the other way around?
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Old 3rd December 2017, 05:56 PM   #18
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
I don't get how a good polar response does not provide an equally good impulse response.
Good point. I may have been misinterpeting the impulse response. Pardon my ignorance, but it just occurred to me that you'd have to equalize both horns to the same frequency response to do a proper comparison of the impulse. Is that right?

IE, if I measure two horns without equazling them flat, and then look at the impulse, I'm comparing apples to oranges?

"If the transfer function of a system is given by H(s), then the impulse response of a system is given by h(t) where h(t) is the inverse Laplace Transform of H(s). A less significant concept is that the impulse response is the derivative of the step response."

Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Why not just take your sphere and rotate it around the circular aperture, like a donut. Your design will have failing polars along the diagonals. The rotated sphere won't.
Click the image to open in full size.

I'm largely tinkering with M2 and PT style waveguides, because the PT waveguide measures so nice. Both have 'beaks' which should widen the polar response on the X and Y axis, at the expense of the orthogonal polar response.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 08:40 PM   #19
charlie2 is offline charlie2  England
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more data less wank????????????

zilch................
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Old 3rd December 2017, 10:51 PM   #20
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
IE, if I measure two horns without equazling them flat, and then look at the impulse, I'm comparing apples to oranges?
If you make the two exactly the same frequency response then the impulse responses will be exactly the same. I would look at the impulse responses to see which had the least spread, i.e. is more compact.
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