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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 4th January 2018, 09:26 AM   #11
bogdan2011 is offline bogdan2011
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Those are some sexy speakers!
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Old 1st February 2018, 12:53 PM   #12
bogdan2011 is offline bogdan2011
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I think I've settled for a configuration:

RS225 + TC9FD18 + K1

I've modeled the different versions of the 225 and got different options with each of them. Winisd recommends a vented QB3 for the 8 ohm version and a SC4 for the 4 ohm version. As far as I've read, the QB3 alignment has better transient response, right?
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Old 2nd February 2018, 05:41 AM   #13
Mario Pankov is offline Mario Pankov  Europe
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Active sealed MTM with RS180P
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Originally Posted by bogdan2011 View Post
I'm surprised that 10W drivers are on that list. I know it's mostly used in the mid-high frequencies, but isn't there a big difference in power between the Dayton and them?
Input power of a loudspeaker is usually dictated by the woofer. When given (usually as a 100h noise rms test, so not a sine) it represents conditions under which the loudspeaker is constantly fed with complex (usually pink noise) signal that allows both a mech and thermal test to be carried on.

With standard music (unless you play those meditation sine waves on youtube) power handling would be typically higher and it is usually given under some assumptions. For example, if its a tweeter it may be 100W 2Khz 12db/oct which means if you cross it at 2Khz with a 12db slope you can feed it 100W pink noise and it should do. If you use a 2.5Khz crossover with a 12db slope it may take more, let`s say just as an example 150W. If you use a 4th order slope (24db/oct) it may take more until its own thermal limit is reached, which is typically high. As an extra, if you look at the music signal as a spectrum, in most cases the material above 1Khz will be very limited in amplitude and occurence. And then, on mids and tweeters you will usually use some padding so some extra power would be dissipated by the resistive element (being it a resistor or a higher DCR coil).

So...observe the excursion limit of your woofer, it will dictate the system power handling.
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Old 7th February 2018, 10:10 PM   #14
bogdan2011 is offline bogdan2011
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While I'm waiting for spring to come, I'm thinking of powering the drivers. The 225s will be powered by ESP's P3A and the others with LM3886 since I have a bunch of them.
I've made a PCB for P3A (GND planes not visible).

Click the image to open in full size.

Supply is +-35V that will hopefully be supplied by an SMPS.
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Old 9th February 2018, 10:07 AM   #15
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdan2011 View Post
While I'm waiting for spring to come, I'm thinking of powering the drivers. The 225s will be powered by ESP's P3A and the others with LM3886 since I have a bunch of them.
I've made a PCB for P3A (GND planes not visible).
Supply is +-35V that will hopefully be supplied by an SMPS.
The P3A is quite good. I don't think you'll have any issues. Just make sure you do good decoupling on the amplifier boards.

I'm personally not a fan of LM3886, but if you use them well, you can get something decent.

I think this is going to be a nice project.
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Old 9th February 2018, 05:23 PM   #16
bogdan2011 is offline bogdan2011
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Originally Posted by Mrcloc View Post
The P3A is quite good. I don't think you'll have any issues. Just make sure you do good decoupling on the amplifier boards.

I'm personally not a fan of LM3886, but if you use them well, you can get something decent.

I think this is going to be a nice project.
I've been initially thinking of using TDA7294 + 2 x LM3886 all on one board and maybe include the filters there as well. That gets rid of a lot of wiring. But I'm not sure if the TDA would handle a 4 ohm load well. I've used the LM3886 before in previous projects and it sounds good with quality external components, proper heatsink and within its specs.
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Old 9th February 2018, 07:49 PM   #17
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
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Originally Posted by bogdan2011 View Post
I've been initially thinking of using TDA7294 + 2 x LM3886 all on one board and maybe include the filters there as well. That gets rid of a lot of wiring. But I'm not sure if the TDA would handle a 4 ohm load well. I've used the LM3886 before in previous projects and it sounds good with quality external components, proper heatsink and within its specs.
The chips are easy to use for sure. I've heard good things about that TDA, but I've never used one. The life of the LM3886 impresses me. I didn't expect them to last (other chips often give up after a few years), but I haven't seen one die of old age.

Here's a story. I built a 70Wx2 (6ohm) LM3886 amplifier for a friend. It had a little noise, so while I tried to reduce it, I lent him one of my prototype amplifiers. He's super meticulous. His feedback was 1) he couldn't believe how silent the amp was. He couldn't hear a thing with his ear to the speaker. 2) he said it sounded "different" to his LM amp. He would have said better, but you know, it's not easy to admit such a thing. Anyway, I found that it isn't very easy to get better than -90dB noise (combined) with the LM. That prototype amp of mine became a very small SMD amplifier - about 30mm x 55mm.

Anyway, very many people claim the gainclones as being wonderful.
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Old 9th February 2018, 07:58 PM   #18
bogdan2011 is offline bogdan2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrcloc View Post
The chips are easy to use for sure. I've heard good things about that TDA, but I've never used one. The life of the LM3886 impresses me. I didn't expect them to last (other chips often give up after a few years), but I haven't seen one die of old age.

Here's a story. I built a 70Wx2 (6ohm) LM3886 amplifier for a friend. It had a little noise, so while I tried to reduce it, I lent him one of my prototype amplifiers. He's super meticulous. His feedback was 1) he couldn't believe how silent the amp was. He couldn't hear a thing with his ear to the speaker. 2) he said it sounded "different" to his LM amp. He would have said better, but you know, it's not easy to admit such a thing. Anyway, I found that it isn't very easy to get better than -90dB noise (combined) with the LM. That prototype amp of mine became a very small SMD amplifier - about 30mm x 55mm.

Anyway, very many people claim the gainclones as being wonderful.
Prototype as in discrete?
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Old 9th February 2018, 09:06 PM   #19
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
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Originally Posted by bogdan2011 View Post
Prototype as in discrete?
Yes. A design I've been working on for about 10 years.
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Old 9th February 2018, 09:12 PM   #20
bogdan2011 is offline bogdan2011
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Originally Posted by Mrcloc View Post
Yes. A design I've been working on for about 10 years.
Discrete amplifiers would be the best option. But three of them at different power levels for each speaker... that's a lot. This is where chip amps fit best.
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