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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

MTM - TMM Shoot Out
MTM - TMM Shoot Out
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Old 28th November 2017, 01:15 PM   #11
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Another fun project, ODougbo!

Click the image to open in full size.

I always tell people it doesn't matter much if you build MTM or TMM style. It ends up with the same filter. And the benefits of the PA sound projection (inverse distance loudness falloff rather than inverse square) and theoretically lower distortion of doubled drivers.

Minor differences in vertical lobing/combing if you are not phase-aligned, 90 degrees in the d'Appolito BW3 style.

Are we looking at 6" or 8" bass here? Parallel or series wired? What is the filter, or is it all HushHush and on the QT... I like the details.
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Old 29th November 2017, 09:30 AM   #12
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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7" Anarchy, some have said it is the best mid bass out there, I'm tuning into a believer.
[very affordable btw] Attaching measurements from the website.
I'm thinking the tweeter is a little hotter then the MTM pair, which is ok, the mid is shining through a bit better.
Or maybe something else, but things like movie/TV dialog is better with the TMM.

The mtm xo is very similar.

Tweeter? Looks like they stopped making these, but this is the 4 I have:
Dayton RS28F-4
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:25 AM   #13
wushuliu is offline wushuliu  United States
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Hard to tell anything without measurements. I think the MTM would have some low midrange suck out say in the 100 to 300hz range. The TMM with the Anarchy I imagine to be a lot fuller and perception of greater 'slam'.

I thought about the anarchy but opted to build an MTM with the Eclipse/W6520R, which I can't believe more people aren't using.

And from personal experience the one with the 12awg inductor will have more low end presence (when used for woofer BSC). 12 is almost double the wire of a 14. I say definitely swap with 14awg and reassess.

Last edited by wushuliu; 30th November 2017 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:42 AM   #14
reggieSf25 is offline reggieSf25  United States
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My first love was a mtm because the sound was more focused and effortless with the right wattage. the tmm seemed to have a brighter presence.
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:50 AM   #15
phivates is online now phivates  United States
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Psychoacoustics rule at this level of choosing, IMO. I bought into MTM in the 80s and I need bias confirmation on this one. Even though KEF did it both ways...
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:51 AM   #16
wushuliu is offline wushuliu  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggieSf25 View Post
My first love was a mtm because the sound was more focused and effortless with the right wattage. the tmm seemed to have a brighter presence.
Agreed. I've had mine built with the tweeter offset and oriented on the outside which with the right tweeter provides a wide presentation from behind the speakers as well as focus.
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Old 1st December 2017, 03:43 AM   #17
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
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I had luck with 3 mtm's across the front for a home theater.
Rca (rat shack) pro cs550's I think.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 07:50 AM   #18
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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Very good Wushuliu, all this sound correct, but I'll need to measure and upgrade the crossover. However the mtm does sound like it is working harder than the tmm.
My work buddy saw both pairs of boxes, he flipped over the style of the mtm, said he wanted "That Pair". So the man on the street likes the look symmetric style more.

Eclipse/W6520R interesting, what size box are you using?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wushuliu View Post
Hard to tell anything without measurements. I think the MTM would have some low midrange suck out say in the 100 to 300hz range. The TMM with the Anarchy I imagine to be a lot fuller and perception of greater 'slam'.
[]
And from personal experience the one with the 12awg inductor will have more low end presence (when used for woofer BSC). 12 is almost double the wire of a 14. I say definitely swap with 14awg and reassess.
he coils.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 09:07 AM   #19
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODougbo View Post
the mtm does sound like it is working harder than the tmm.
You mentioned a slightly different crossover. Are you throwing a little more at the ceiling in the xover region?
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Old 4th December 2017, 08:32 AM   #20
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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AllenB how would I know if that is happening?

I did work on the TMM this weekend, found a xo mistake: used a .33ohm instead of a 3.3ohm at one tweeter which explains the extra high end, even tho it was only one side.
One thing about mtm's, the sound will focus/converge in the center of the room at different lengths. Which is very subtle, but works very nicely for movies. I could see manufacturing companies using this as a marketing ploy for two channel surround sound. Some may grumble at this idea, but it is not bad by any means and keeps things interesting.

Well ordered more xo parts, and more lights for the shop (ugh). I'll go over both pairs and use as many as the same xo parts possible and also weigh the fill in all the cabinets.

Untitled 100.jpg

Last edited by ODougbo; 4th December 2017 at 08:35 AM.
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