An interview with Floyd E. Toole,
Harman International.
"When we did [blind] listening tests with even very simple experimental controls, we found that most people, most of the time, liked and disliked the same loudspeakers. There were exceptions, and when we examined why, we found that hearing performance was a main factor. People with close to normal hearing thresholds, and who had some experience in critical listening, all agreed very closely in their preferences."
Matrix Surround for Music
Toole apparently retired himself from listening tests when he got older, because his preferences were no longer reliable.
I've noticed that a cat will sleep right through loud music and films, but wake up & go nuts when a moth hits the window. The cat can easily ignore the 'fake' sound from the speakers.
If the sound was closer to 'perfect', the cat would be convinced by it - and would go nuts all through the film. However, there's no need to make a 'perfect' HiFi, capable of convincing a cat, when I only want a HiFi that can convince me.
A practical example: a speaker that 'only' extends to 19kHz should be just as good for me as one that extends past 20kHz. I simply don't have the means to perceive the difference. A cat or teenager might be able to tell them apart, but not me.
I'm guessing that means you use sealed subs with very behaved response/phase, indoors and at moderate volume?
Do use use multiple subs? I thought I read you are an advocate of that, apologies if I'm mistaking you for someone else..
If you do use multiple subs, are the subs that are not located adjacent to mains, also run without a LPF ?
I've been using a steep 96dB LPF with proaudio hornloaded or bass-reflex subs, at 100Hz for about 3 years now. I don't hear sub localization with this.
The application is outdoor sound reinforcement where not all subs can be collocated with mains.
I've found at 100Hz, providing xover is steep, subs away from the mains almost act like a ventriloquist , sounding as if they emanate from the mains.
I was hoping 120Hz would sound the same because I have some new mains that would like to cross a little higher, but so far at 120Hz I'm hearing more sub localization than I'd like. More work to do
Due to the time/frequency relationship a resonance like this would need to be very high Q and fairly low in level, as you state. This would not be a common situation, but I suppose that I could design a cabinet that did that. I don't think that I would want to. With some damped joints and/or well damped materials this is not going to happen. As I said, we did not test "bad" cabinets.
If you come across some data that supports your contention then I'd love to see it, but for now my opinion remains unchanged.
I do use sealed subs, now, but did not always do so. Indoors, of course, since here at DIY that is 99% of the discussion - outdoors is completely different. I don't see the phase being an issue since you take care of this in the "mix" (by that I mean the DSP setup driving the subs.) Yes, I have always used multiple subs, I kind of started this trend since my PhD thesis was on this basic concept. With my five Pro LF drivers playing, level is never an issue.
By "no crossover" I mean that there is no fixed HP and LP filters in any of the LF drivers. There are usually some LP filters on the non-mains drivers, but almost never at the same frequency, slope, level or phase. There is no HP filter on the mains (but they are natural HP filters of low Q due to being low Q drivers in largish closed boxes.) All drivers overlap below the Schroeder frequency and are adjusted for minimum deviations spatially as well as spectrally. Bass localization of any sub is impossible. The bass is the best that I have heard. Most people who do this tend to agree.
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