Having owned the D27 and listened to a number of XT25 designs I cant agree that they are even close. I owned the D27TG-45 with the back chamber and lower resonance. The ferrofluid overdamped everything and the Fs kept shifting. Eventually Vifa replaced it with the DX25, a much better tweeter without ff. The DX25 and XT25 have similar motors.
Regarding chemically treating the M13WG surround, I am not sure it is a good idea. My P13WH is being replaced with either a Satori MW13P or a Scan 10F. I am leaning toward the 10F. An NE123W is also in the mix.
Regarding chemically treating the M13WG surround, I am not sure it is a good idea. My P13WH is being replaced with either a Satori MW13P or a Scan 10F. I am leaning toward the 10F. An NE123W is also in the mix.
The surrounds don't turn brittle. If they were liquid you would say they were more viscous. On my P13s, the Fs value went from 68Hz to 112 Hz on the same driver with the same measuring equipment over 15 years. Compare them to the surround on the M26WR. I bet you that one feels light and flexible. Mine still does. The Fs on my M26WRs went from 27Hz to 28Hz over the same period of time. That is an excellent driver. I think it holds its own today.
Have you actually listened to it along with the MW13? I have not. It will be a leap of faith. Troels Gravesen raved about the 10F as a mid
No. We have used it as a midtweeter with the Alpair 12pw. We don’t usually do multiWays (except for WAW (aka FASTs)). The 10F is good, but we feel overpriced and its performance as a FR or midTweeter is exclipsed by at least a couple less expensive 3 & 3.5” FR drivers. Smooth, but lacking in detail capability (and low & high frequency extension as would be expected for something that is really a midrange).
dave.
dave.
It's quite impossible for me to tell how a driver sounds like based on specs alone.
The way I do it is to buy them, design a speaker and listen. Only then will I know the sonic signature of the driver, it's strengths and weaknesses.
I don't have the M26WR so can't really comment. What I do have are:
1) PL26WR-09-04
2) M30WO-49-08
3) M25WO-49-08
4) M21WO-39-08
5) P21WN-20-08
Not counting smaller Vifas.
None of them met my expectations. Even my Peerless 830869 is disappointing. All the hype with the Nomex cone. What really surprised me is my NE265W. This is what I call a woofer.
Come to think of it, I believe I have 4 units of D25AG35-06 somewhere in my inventory. They were highly regarded in it's time but nowadays, better tweeters can be found for the same price.
If you want detail, the NE123W will certainly provide it, along with tonally full midrange. I ran mine full range before developing the tweeter xover, and they were adequate that way as well, if just a bit ragged on top and not able to provide resolution of the very highest frequencies. Superb driver.
Peace,
Tom E
There was not much difference between the M26WR and the PL26WR. The PL was the successor with slightly higher mass and same motor. The result was slightly lower F3 at a larger enclosure.
Of all the woofers you mentioned the NE265 has by far the lowest mechanical resistance (highest Qms). I do think there is something to this philosophy from Scan Speak, SB, and the former Vifa now Tymphany NE line.
Of all the woofers you mentioned the NE265 has by far the lowest mechanical resistance (highest Qms). I do think there is something to this philosophy from Scan Speak, SB, and the former Vifa now Tymphany NE line.
I think the M26WR and the PL26WR are quite similar. The PL (Premium Line) are the top Vifas then.
From the day I got the PL26 till today, which is almost 20 years, I've never been able to get any decent bass out of them. From Closed Box to Bass Reflex to Push/Pull with 2 drivers, all didn't work.
I tried boxes of 35 liters, 55 liters, 100 liters. Didn't help too.
What works really well is 40Hz and below. I think the PL26 is more in the mold of a true subwoofer. I can actually feel the sub bass.
It will make a wonderful subwoofer for Home Theater but not for music playback. It may work for music if crossed at 50Hz. This would mean a woofer or midwoofer will have to do the main bass duty.
Using the PL26 this way is a bit of a luxury but I don't see any other way.
From the day I got the PL26 till today, which is almost 20 years, I've never been able to get any decent bass out of them. From Closed Box to Bass Reflex to Push/Pull with 2 drivers, all didn't work.
I tried boxes of 35 liters, 55 liters, 100 liters. Didn't help too.
What works really well is 40Hz and below. I think the PL26 is more in the mold of a true subwoofer. I can actually feel the sub bass.
It will make a wonderful subwoofer for Home Theater but not for music playback. It may work for music if crossed at 50Hz. This would mean a woofer or midwoofer will have to do the main bass duty.
Using the PL26 this way is a bit of a luxury but I don't see any other way.
The Seas used in this build- i nearly bought a pair but went for a smaller mid in the end
http://www.catharijnestudio.com/wordpress/?page_id=430
http://www.catharijnestudio.com/wordpress/?page_id=430
If you have a DSP setup already and want maximum detail retreival, you might as well go for stiff metal cone drivers. Polypropylene and some doped 'lossy' paper drivers really lack detail
Something like SEAS 27TBCD as the tweeter and a metal midrange such as SB15NAC30-4 or maybe a SEAS excel magnesium cone
If you want 'enhanced' midrange you can go for a kevlar cone, but this just trades some detail for some more exciting midrange
Something like SEAS 27TBCD as the tweeter and a metal midrange such as SB15NAC30-4 or maybe a SEAS excel magnesium cone
If you want 'enhanced' midrange you can go for a kevlar cone, but this just trades some detail for some more exciting midrange
I always liked the Vifa aluminum D25s! Would you like to sell me a pair?
Very nice! Thanks for your input!
Yes I agree with your philosophy on this. Thank you so much for your reply, it's a big help for my decisions!
Much appreciated!
Sure, no problem. Let me find them first. They're packed in one of the boxes.
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