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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Well I suppose the shallow vs. steep argument will just go on and on
Well I suppose the shallow vs. steep argument will just go on and on
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Old 11th December 2017, 03:05 PM   #391
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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Well I suppose the shallow vs. steep argument will just go on and on
Thought i share this homemade tilting EQ tweak here because it also influence a lot on "you are there" and "they are here" imaging in room balance, and think it works pretty good after house-curve is dialed in as a last stage subjective tweaking tool where one can step small 0,1dB numbers at a time and evaluate acoustic domain performance. Its not a strait line completely ripple free when zoomed into but if it was it will take too many PEQs to change then every time one would step filter, so ended up use only two shelving filters to get it done.

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Old 11th December 2017, 04:42 PM   #392
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Originally Posted by BYRTT View Post
Thought i share this homemade tilting EQ tweak here because it also influence a lot on "you are there" and "they are here" imaging in room balance, and think it works pretty good after house-curve is dialed in as a last stage subjective tweaking tool where one can step small 0,1dB numbers at a time and evaluate acoustic domain performance. Its not a strait line completely ripple free when zoomed into but if it was it will take too many PEQs to change then every time one would step filter, so ended up use only two shelving filters to get it done.

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Thx BYRTT, I really agree that such simple shelving EQ can have a major effect on how we perceive the issues being discussed in this thread.

In fact, I think the boost or roll-off on the ends of the spectrum, inherent in most all recorded material, has a super influence in how our systems responds in general.

My first attempt to address this issue was with sets of shelving filters, that allow me to basically create a seesaw frequency response, where I can control the fulcrum point and the tilt of the frequency response.
Though a lot of trial and error I've settled in on 640Hz as the fulcrum point, with 3 or 4 low shelf filters below, and 3 or 4 high shelf filters above. Filters are generally spaced an octave apart.
Works really well for making almost any recording sound natural. (My systems all start tuned flat without any EQ...really flat , freq and phase).

My latest attempt, to make the above less cumbersome, is I now have a volume control on each passband on my 4-way system. Each passband is about 2 to 3 octaves wide.
I use a mixer where I have 4 adjacent sliders for relative passband adjustments, all controlled jointly by a DCA for overall volume.
Each passband is linear phase thru x-over and summation to at least -20db, so I have a lot of ability to maintain linear phase throughout the spectrum, even as I move acoustic x-over points up or down.

I'm loving this setup. I can make almost anything sound good.
What I've learned in adjusting the passbands is I'm really compensating for whatever spectral tilt is in the recording.

My theory is: let's assume our hearing is reasonably the same...whoever did the mastering did their best to make the recording sound good in their mastering room.
Which means they dialed in levels and tonality in response to what they were hearing from their speakers with whatever spectral bias the speakers and room imparted..
I don't know a lot about making recordings, but I assume all must be mastered, whether recorded in studio or in live ensemble. If this is true, then all recordings reflect what the mastering room/speakers sound like.

If recorded where speaker/room was flat...I don't need to touch the sliders. If recorded where bright, the mastering will turn down the highs and I will hear they need to be turned up.

IOW, if I hear a spectral imbalance on any of the passbands relative to each other, I figure that reflects the opposite imbalance in where the recording was mastered.

All FWIW
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Old 11th December 2017, 05:02 PM   #393
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
I'm not saying that early reflections and/or diffraction don't upset "they are here" localisation, nor am I saying those can be ignored when trying to achieve it.

...

That's what I mean when I say its the frequency response that is important - but at the listeners ears, not at one specific speaker axis.
I would agree to that with one caveat and that is that the window time has to be adjusted as per our hearing, i.e. very much like the sliding window that is currently popular, which is a good approximation to hearing.

Greisinger says that 700 - 7k Hz is the critical range for imaging. Kind of agrees with what you are saying.
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Old 11th December 2017, 05:24 PM   #394
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Originally Posted by graaf View Post
a short up-firing coaxial meet those requirements
What do you mean by short? How about a wideband in a tube similar the LX Mini?
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Old 11th December 2017, 06:53 PM   #395
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
What do you mean by short? How about a wideband in a tube similar the LX Mini?
by short I mean 20-30 cm above the floor - if DBMandrake is right that "this sense of depth perception comes primarily from lower frequencies especially in the upper bass lower midrange region about 150-400Hz.
...and I think a lot of otherwise technically very good speakers just don't get this right as they aren't willing to take some of the steps that are necessary - such as a wide baffle or a woofer that is close to the floor."

however my personal experience accords with Griesinger's "700 - 7k Hz is the critical range for imaging"

it just have to be heavily tilted back, 45 degrees or more, and no need for it to be short
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Old 11th December 2017, 07:47 PM   #396
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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regarding a wideband in a tube a la the LX Mini - I suppose it hasn't got the required directivity to work according to the theory but OTOH TimeDomain Yoshii9 is quite successful

but I haven't tried such an approach myself so I cannot say
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Old 11th December 2017, 08:10 PM   #397
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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I'm tempted to try it with my widebands, it would be a simple experiment. I have them in OB so I'm used to, and like, the semi-omnidirectional sound
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