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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Live vs. Recorded - can you hear a difference?
Live vs. Recorded - can you hear a difference?
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Old 19th September 2017, 09:29 AM   #21
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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It's awesome that you're going to try such a comparison. It may not be a novelty, Either Duntech or Dunlavy used to do stuff like this (can't remember which).

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyser View Post
I'll make the recordings available for download after the test.
That would be great too! How often do we get a chance to hear something like that.

I'm interested in the outcome. I think using a mono speaker is a good choice, though indeed an Omni speaker might have a better shot at it. Your speaker was designed to avoid reflections due to directivity while the "live show" will have them in a real room. Makes one wonder if you should have pré-recorded in that room.
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Old 19th September 2017, 10:50 AM   #22
valtergio is offline valtergio  Italy
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it depends on what we want to get.
if you will want to get a fidelity recording,
this is the reverse of how we will should do.
Any sound produced in the anechoic chamber is not suitable for listen from our brain.
You will obtain a sound without the informations of the space around the instruments and,
again more important,
you will not have the space time informations, necessary, for links each one to the others the instruments and alls together for shape the live esecution.
and then when you listen you will add the informations produced from the room, informations not present in the live esecution.
Perhaps? are you trying to eliminate a source of disturbance?
The disturb are created from the conditions in which we listen the sound.
However i believe that your experiment will be much educational for your experience.
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Old 19th September 2017, 10:55 AM   #23
marco_gea is offline marco_gea  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyser View Post

Unfortunately it's the crappy speakers in the photo. To be honest, I don't really think they're crappy (I actually think they're among the most accurate you'll find), but you're probably right in that an omnipole would be a better speaker for this particular job. That's because an omni has a dispersion pattern that's closer to that of the snare, the keys on a chain and the cello. To accurately reproduce spoken voice, a conventional 2-way box the size of a human head would probably be best.

We're trying to create the illusion of "here and now". The speakers we're using are better equipped to create an illusion of "there and then", which is an even more difficult one to pull off.
I agree about controlled directivity speakers being better at creating the illusion of "there and then" vs. omnis being better at creating the illusion of "here and now".

Also, given that 99.9% of the recordings are NOT anechoic, this is the reason why in my opinion and experience, omnis are a poor choice for the reproduction of conventional acoustic recordings.
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Old 19th September 2017, 10:58 AM   #24
marco_gea is offline marco_gea  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valtergio View Post
it depends on what we want to get.
if you will want to get a fidelity recording,
this is the reverse of how we will should do.
Any sound produced in the anechoic chamber is not suitable for listen from our brain.
You will obtain a sound without the informations of the space around the instruments and,
again more important,
you will not have the space time informations, necessary, for links each one to the others the instruments and alls together for shape the live esecution.
and then when you listen you will add the informations produced from the room, informations not present in the live esecution.
Perhaps? are you trying to eliminate a source of disturbance?
The disturb are created from the conditions in which we listen the sound.
However i believe that your experiment will be much educational for your experience.
Not intending to sound snarky here, but I think that if you want to take part in forums like this, then you should work on improving your English. It's very hard to make out what you want to say.
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Old 19th September 2017, 11:55 AM   #25
squadra is offline squadra  Thailand
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I think it is a cool test, very interesting.
Also, I assume you have already verified you will get (at least) close enough to do this, 'with the world watching', so congratulations
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Old 19th September 2017, 12:01 PM   #26
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Live vs. Recorded - can you hear a difference?
Keyser. I'm surprised at the 1/10th dB levels, I don't remember finding it that critical, but do remember that it was touchy. No, not done at any audio show that I remember, just private demos among enthusiasts. The give-away for me, outside of level, is always a boxy sound. Speakers can so easily sound like boxes - often the problem is in the low midrange. Speaker that don't sound boxy often go a long way toward sounding real. It may be different for different people, but that was my main clue.

I find it surprising that so many people think this isn't possible, don't understand the test, think it's pointless or bring up issues that don't really matter. Maybe I've just worked with live sound and recordings for so long this test doesn't seem so complex to me. Many of the issues involved are not what most people imagine, maybe that's what leads them astray. You are already well down the road to understanding what' needed for a test like this. Have fun and best of luck!
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:52 PM   #27
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
I think using a mono speaker is a good choice, though indeed an Omni speaker might have a better shot at it. Your speaker was designed to avoid reflections due to directivity while the "live show" will have them in a real room. Makes one wonder if you should have pré-recorded in that room.
I don't get how it can be a valid comparison either
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Old 19th September 2017, 09:34 PM   #28
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Unlike most here, I think you will do really well and have a high chance of fooling people.
Yes, and I think it's because people will be open to being fooled and how many will know what the live instrument sounds like anyway? Who are the listeners going to be?
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Old 19th September 2017, 10:32 PM   #29
dotneck335 is offline dotneck335  United States
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How about making the musicians be the listeners?
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:44 PM   #30
NATDBERG is offline NATDBERG  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
First of all one has to know what one is doing. What is the stereo sound? How does this illusion work?

We need a theory.

For example David Moulton has a theory of how speakers in stereo work:



Sounds right BUT OTOH the first of a set of early reflections is not what a stereo mic records. So there is fundamental inconsistence between what the mic records and how the loudspeakers are perceived.

Anyone has a better theory?
I don't think he is saying that they are reproducing some recorded early reflections but that the brain interprets whatever is recorded AS early reflections, regardless of what has been recorded. Sounds like a kind of made-up theory *unless* there is some psycho-acoustic or nurological evidence pointing towards that.
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