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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Need some guidance and suggestions for first DIY speaker project
Need some guidance and suggestions for first DIY speaker project
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Old 10th September 2017, 02:11 AM   #1
ExponentFlame11 is offline ExponentFlame11  Finland
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Smile Need some guidance and suggestions for first DIY speaker project

(some of these questions I have mind may seem stupid but I've never used pa and DIY speaker settings so I just want to get these out for peace of my mind sake )

Hello! This year I really started to get excited about DIY speaker because of lower cost with less compromised made that off the shelf speakers can offer.
But main reason is that it would bring a lot of experience in working with wood and plus tools that is needed to make them.

I'm really dedicated to learn how to calculate box sizes, how to work with CAD/Bassbox pro, how to work with wood/tools and how to finalize speakers.

1.I need some guidelines how to get started and what I need to know.

2.I've decided that I want to make 3-way Bass, mid, tweeter based speakers.


Precision Devices PD.186/2 Precision Devices PD.186/2 - Thomann UK
(seems to have a ton of good feedback)

or
Eighteensound 18TLW3000 Eighteensound 18TLW3000 8 Ohms - Thomann UK

(Seems to have double 4 inch voice coil that can answer to 6 inch voice coil in diameter.)
or
RCF LF18X401 RCF LF18X401 - Thomann UK

These are three bass speakers that I've looked upon for now, I've though about other bass speakers like eminence's but there are just too much to choose from. It would nice to have some suggestion on that front like what mids and what tweeters would be good match if you have experience of those or know more about mids and tweeter speakers. How do more expensive tweeters (100-200€) differ from 50€

4.Next would it be more viable to buy active crossover like behringer's 3-way stereo/4-way mono active crossover compared to passive crossover for first timer in building speakers. With active crossover having XLR terminals how are they connected to speakers and does it need external amp (like Behringer Inuke 6000 dsp) and can I connect them to my main amp(onkyo's two channels just for stereo) and use these as surrounds for my speaker setup while my main amp being the source of audio. Would there be any noticeable latency?

5. Would someone know good tutorial how to calculate speaker for box size?

6. What kind of tools would I possibly need for making of DIY speaker project, I already own some but they are at my summer house at a moment. But they are pretty old, thinking of buying (all new tools)

7. Would I first need to buy speaker drivers and testing equipments before even starting to design box, or are speaker specsheets enough?

Hmmm these are the things that comes first in my mind
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Old 10th September 2017, 03:18 AM   #2
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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So..... have you considered building a kit already designed for you? Lots to choose from there, relatively low risk. Good learning opportunity. At the very least, you really should examine as many of these kits as you can ahead of time, it will help you pick and choose your features more wisely.

Active crossovers are really nice in that you can reconfigure at zero cost, and add time delay relatively easily to each drive. Not so nice in number of amplifier channels needed. For a pair of 3-way speakers, that is the equivalent of 3 stereo amplifiers.

One kind of hybrid approach is to do passive tweeter/midrange, and active between mid and woofer. This reduces the amplifier channels by a third, and makes the use of a number of 2-channel plate/DSP based amplifiers. Plus, you still get full EQ capabilities on the top and bottom sections.


Best,


E
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Last edited by eriksquires; 10th September 2017 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 10th September 2017, 03:23 AM   #3
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Need some guidance and suggestions for first DIY speaker project
Quote:
… but I've never used pa and DIY speaker ...
What is the purpose of this speaker. Home or PA?

dave
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p10-hifi forum here at diyA
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Old 10th September 2017, 03:55 AM   #4
ExponentFlame11 is offline ExponentFlame11  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
What is the purpose of this speaker. Home or PA?

dave
Home, I kinda like the bass that my old klipsch rf-52II produce but they are kinda of small to have big wow effect on bass department
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Old 10th September 2017, 04:06 AM   #5
ExponentFlame11 is offline ExponentFlame11  Finland
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksquires View Post
So..... have you considered building a kit already designed for you? Lots to choose from there, relatively low risk. Good learning opportunity. At the very least, you really should examine as many of these kits as you can ahead of time, it will help you pick and choose your features more wisely.

Active crossovers are really nice in that you can reconfigure at zero cost, and add time delay relatively easily to each drive. Not so nice in number of amplifier channels needed. For a pair of 3-way speakers, that is the equivalent of 3 stereo amplifiers.

One kind of hybrid approach is to do passive tweeter/midrange, and active between mid and woofer. This reduces the amplifier channels by a third, and makes the use of a number of 2-channel plate/DSP based amplifiers. Plus, you still get full EQ capabilities on the top and bottom sections.


Best,


E
Is it possible to connect active crossover like CX3400 Super X Pro to Inuke 6000dsp amp and that to Onkyo I'm trying to possess all information possible
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Old 10th September 2017, 02:31 PM   #6
ExponentFlame11 is offline ExponentFlame11  Finland
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksquires View Post
So..... have you considered building a kit already designed for you? Lots to choose from there, relatively low risk. Good learning opportunity. At the very least, you really should examine as many of these kits as you can ahead of time, it will help you pick and choose your features more wisely.

Active crossovers are really nice in that you can reconfigure at zero cost, and add time delay relatively easily to each drive. Not so nice in number of amplifier channels needed. For a pair of 3-way speakers, that is the equivalent of 3 stereo amplifiers.

One kind of hybrid approach is to do passive tweeter/midrange, and active between mid and woofer. This reduces the amplifier channels by a third, and makes the use of a number of 2-channel plate/DSP based amplifiers. Plus, you still get full EQ capabilities on the top and bottom sections.


Best,


E
I got an idea, would it be ideal to make semi-modular speaker system like subwoofer would have it's own box and mid-bass/tweeter their own little box on top of that subwoofer box that is going to be hold on to place with pin fasteners and one stereo amplifier powering them. I must say that I personally like modular things over anything, be it smartphone/PC or anything modular/semi-modular.

It would take A lot less effort upgrade mid-bass and tweeter that way if I want to change them sometime in the future without changing bass driver.
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Old 10th September 2017, 05:37 PM   #7
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Why not a high-impact, good sounding 2-way to start? Here is one of many at DIY Sound Group:

HTM-10 DIY Sound Group

I'm sorry I don't know the electronics, but usually it's something like this:

Preamp/Processor --> Crossover --> (multiple amplifier channels) ==> Drivers

Everything wiht a dash is line level (RCA/XLR) while the ==> Denotes high voltage speaker level signals. Passive systems are more like this:

Preamp/Processor --> Amplifier ==> Passive Crossover ==> ( multiple drivers)

Best,

E
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Old 11th September 2017, 02:24 AM   #8
keilau is offline keilau  United States
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Windy City, US
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExponentFlame11 View Post
(some of these questions I have mind may seem stupid but I've never used pa and DIY speaker settings so I just want to get these out for peace of my mind sake )

Hello! This year I really started to get excited about DIY speaker because of lower cost with less compromised made that off the shelf speakers can offer.
But main reason is that it would bring a lot of experience in working with wood and plus tools that is needed to make them.

I'm really dedicated to learn how to calculate box sizes, how to work with CAD/Bassbox pro, how to work with wood/tools and how to finalize speakers.

1.I need some guidelines how to get started and what I need to know.

2.I've decided that I want to make 3-way Bass, mid, tweeter based speakers.


Precision Devices PD.186/2 Precision Devices PD.186/2 - Thomann UK
(seems to have a ton of good feedback)

or
Eighteensound 18TLW3000 Eighteensound 18TLW3000 8 Ohms - Thomann UK

(Seems to have double 4 inch voice coil that can answer to 6 inch voice coil in diameter.)
or
RCF LF18X401 RCF LF18X401 - Thomann UK

These are three bass speakers that I've looked upon for now, I've though about other bass speakers like eminence's but there are just too much to choose from. It would nice to have some suggestion on that front like what mids and what tweeters would be good match if you have experience of those or know more about mids and tweeter speakers. How do more expensive tweeters (100-200€) differ from 50€

4.Next would it be more viable to buy active crossover like behringer's 3-way stereo/4-way mono active crossover compared to passive crossover for first timer in building speakers. With active crossover having XLR terminals how are they connected to speakers and does it need external amp (like Behringer Inuke 6000 dsp) and can I connect them to my main amp(onkyo's two channels just for stereo) and use these as surrounds for my speaker setup while my main amp being the source of audio. Would there be any noticeable latency?

5. Would someone know good tutorial how to calculate speaker for box size?

6. What kind of tools would I possibly need for making of DIY speaker project, I already own some but they are at my summer house at a moment. But they are pretty old, thinking of buying (all new tools)

7. Would I first need to buy speaker drivers and testing equipments before even starting to design box, or are speaker specsheets enough?

Hmmm these are the things that comes first in my mind
I second many of the suggestions that you start with a complete kit. I assume you are in UK. Visit Falcon Acoustic which have excellent choice of speaker drivers. Wilmslow has more choice of kits over a wider price range.

Falcon Acoustics, or

Wilmslow Audio

If you are more ambitious, Paul Carmody has an excellent resources reference for begineers. See the resouces particularly the Q&A's. Paul has pretty good answer for your question #5, #6 and #7.

undefinition

There are too many good speaker DIY websites. Spend the time to browse them.

Last edited by keilau; 11th September 2017 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:20 AM   #9
ExponentFlame11 is offline ExponentFlame11  Finland
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by keilau View Post
I second many of the suggestions that you start with a complete kit. I assume you are in UK. Visit Falcon Acoustic which have excellent choice of speaker drivers. Wilmslow has more choice of kits over a wider price range.

Falcon Acoustics, or

Wilmslow Audio

If you are more ambitious, Paul Carmody has an excellent resources reference for begineers. See the resouces particularly the Q&A's. Paul has pretty good answer for your question #5, #6 and #7.

undefinition

There are too many good speaker DIY websites. Spend the time to browse them.
Okay thanks! (I actually living in Finland but ordering from inside EU or from UK is not a problem) Paul Carmody carrera speaker project sounds very interesting . I slowly start to understand crossover diagram, as I've read and watched couple of dozen different videos and resources. But I still don't get how is frequency cut to to specific frequency and how is RMS wattage calculated from crossover design.

On other note. Are there any good internet crossover component stores in hong kong, korea or in china that has global shipping?

Finland has some really expensive crossover stores..

2.0mm 0.10mH 0.050 ohm Inductor is like 16 (close to 20$)
1.50mH 0.210ohm inductor is over 50

Loudspeaker freaks Home page seems to be okay speaker/crossover store in EU (I think)
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:41 AM   #10
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExponentFlame11 View Post
Loudspeaker freaks Home page seems to be okay speaker/crossover store in EU (I think)
They used to be called Europe Audio and here is a thread spanning 6 years of experiences dealing with them:
Europe Audio - dreadful experience
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