Hi guys, I'm about to start developing my first 3 ways floorstanding vented loudspeaker and I just finished choosing my drivers.
I would like to have an opinion about them :
Scan Speak Woofer : 15W_8530K01
Visaton Midrange : TI100
Scan Speak Tweeter : D2008/851200
I'm planning to crossover them at 400Hz and 2K
Notes and worries:
I was careful to choose speakers with similar sensitivitye in order not to use damp resistors in the crossover. The woofer is 85.5 db, the mid 86 db and the tweeter 88db but in the crossover point goes down to 86db.
I also picked them with same 8ohm impedance to make power calculations easier.
I'm a little worried about the wattage since the woofer average wattage seems to be 60W and the midrange is 40W, that's why I would like to let it work with a narrower bandwidth. The tweeter is rated for 90W.
Really want to have your opinion about this arrangement.
Thanks
Luigi
I would like to have an opinion about them :
Scan Speak Woofer : 15W_8530K01
Visaton Midrange : TI100
Scan Speak Tweeter : D2008/851200
I'm planning to crossover them at 400Hz and 2K
Notes and worries:
I was careful to choose speakers with similar sensitivitye in order not to use damp resistors in the crossover. The woofer is 85.5 db, the mid 86 db and the tweeter 88db but in the crossover point goes down to 86db.
I also picked them with same 8ohm impedance to make power calculations easier.
I'm a little worried about the wattage since the woofer average wattage seems to be 60W and the midrange is 40W, that's why I would like to let it work with a narrower bandwidth. The tweeter is rated for 90W.
Really want to have your opinion about this arrangement.
Thanks
Luigi
Underneath your comments, I suspect you are not really sure what you are doing here.
You'll have all the complexity of a 3 way, with none of its strengths. I really don't think this will sound any better than the classic 5" bass, 3/4" tweeter combination:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-45.html#post5139615
With a 15W scanspeak woofer (the bigger magnet K00 version) you'd end up here:
Carrera - undefinition
With 5" SEAS drivers, this is how it looks:
SEAS 5INCH
These are sweet little speakers that are easy to build, IMO. Ideal for low level listening in smallish rooms. You get good bass from 12-15L of reflex and high Wife-approval factor. An MTM conversion might make sense for higher volume capability.
Regardless, you should be able to sim some projects very similar in Boxsim: Downloads
You can import the BPJ files from here for a start: boxsim-db.de | Boxsim Projektdatenbank
The W130S driver must be similar to the scan 15W.
You'll have all the complexity of a 3 way, with none of its strengths. I really don't think this will sound any better than the classic 5" bass, 3/4" tweeter combination:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-45.html#post5139615
With a 15W scanspeak woofer (the bigger magnet K00 version) you'd end up here:
Carrera - undefinition
With 5" SEAS drivers, this is how it looks:
SEAS 5INCH
These are sweet little speakers that are easy to build, IMO. Ideal for low level listening in smallish rooms. You get good bass from 12-15L of reflex and high Wife-approval factor. An MTM conversion might make sense for higher volume capability.
Regardless, you should be able to sim some projects very similar in Boxsim: Downloads
You can import the BPJ files from here for a start: boxsim-db.de | Boxsim Projektdatenbank
The W130S driver must be similar to the scan 15W.
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Hi. I have used the 15W/8531K-00 in a two way, a similar driver, and what I love is the midrange.
I wonder what the advantage of using the Vistaon as a midrange would be.
Maybe consider a 2way or use a more substantial woofer with the 15w. This depends on the amount of bass you want to create. The 15W are quite extended in a ported cabinet but don't go that loud.
I wonder what the advantage of using the Vistaon as a midrange would be.
Maybe consider a 2way or use a more substantial woofer with the 15w. This depends on the amount of bass you want to create. The 15W are quite extended in a ported cabinet but don't go that loud.
I was just comparing Paul Carmody's Scan design with Troels Gravesen's SEAS CA15RLY. Hardly any difference. That 22uF/3mH/5.6-10R 1kHz presence notch! I must admit my little 5" speakers do shout a bit in the midrange without it, which actually makes for good vocals IMO.
Seems an easy speaker, regardless! What did you do for a filter, pop4richard?
Hi system7 and thanks for your answer!Underneath your comments, I suspect you are not really sure what you are doing here.
You'll have all the complexity of a 3 way, with none of its strengths. I really don't think this will sound any better than the classic 5" bass, 3/4" tweeter combination:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-45.html#post5139615
With a 15W scanspeak woofer (the bigger magnet K00 version) you'd end up here:
Carrera - undefinition
With 5" SEAS drivers, this is how it looks:
SEAS 5INCH
These are sweet little speakers that are easy to build, IMO. Ideal for low level listening in smallish rooms. You get good bass from 12-15L of reflex and high Wife-approval factor. An MTM conversion might make sense for higher volume capability.
Regardless, you should be able to sim some projects very similar in Boxsim: Downloads
You can import the BPJ files from here for a start: boxsim-db.de | Boxsim Projektdatenbank
The W130S driver must be similar to the scan 15W.
you are probably right, I actually wanted to achieve two goals with this speaker drivers selections:
1. not to stress to much the scan speaker because I want to use a 200W amplifier (100W per channel)
2. since I'm using a learn-by-doing approach to speakers design and I already have made a 2 ways bookshelf crossover I wanted to try this time to design a 3 way floor standing speaker
I also understand the point of pop4richards who says that the midrange is the strength point of the scanspeaker, so probably what I'm missing is a good low-frequency starting point here, because the visaton and the scan almost do the same job, don't they?
Any suggestion about how to complete the 3 ways speaker driver selections according to the specifications of :
- must have similar, or the same SPL
- should be suitable for a floorstanding loudspeaker
I also considered the MTM approach, but, this time I want to learn and experiment a 3 ways!
I also considered as specification using a LF driver compatible with a ported cabinet but I could also try to go for a sealed if I find a driver I fall in love with.
Really I repeat, I'm here to learn, so please feel free to give me any tips about the 3 ways floorstanding speaker I'm going to build!
So it's probably better if I change my question into:
what specifications of your drivers would you look for if you plan to develop a 3 ways floorstanding loudspeaker?
Let's don't care about the room where it's going to be (eg. let's say a 50m^2 room) and let's say I'm going to power the speaker with a 200W (100W per channel max amplifier).
what specifications of your drivers would you look for if you plan to develop a 3 ways floorstanding loudspeaker?
Let's don't care about the room where it's going to be (eg. let's say a 50m^2 room) and let's say I'm going to power the speaker with a 200W (100W per channel max amplifier).
Hi Pipi,
For one thing, I'd look for a mid I could cross at 3-5kHz. Take a look at the recent thread on good midrange drivers here:
4 inch Midranges - Price Performance ?
For one thing, I'd look for a mid I could cross at 3-5kHz. Take a look at the recent thread on good midrange drivers here:
4 inch Midranges - Price Performance ?
There's a flaw in your reasoning: you didn't account for BSC (Baffle Step Compensation),
you will have to attenuate your mid and tweeter a few DBs, depending of cabinet design, placement and room.
A woofer with higher sensitivity will be better.
I always give very comprehensive answers, but it's up to you to do the work! 
If you'd followed the Visaton link, you'd have found a classic 3 way project: boxsim-db.de | Boxsim Projektdatenbank
It's rather good, IMO. The standard varies a bit with some of the other projects. The nice ones have a good flat impedance IMO.
Troels has done loads too: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Troels' implementation is very good on impedance. A master-class in how to do these things.
A 4" mid tends to struggle to keep up on power handling. But you could double them up, or use a 5".
But they all have a Steen Duelund target response which just works like a dream. Get simming. it takes 2 minutes to import the BPJ file to Boxsim! Then fiddle with it! The optimiser usually has a good stab at getting it right. You just mark the components in red you want it to adjust.
If you'd followed the Visaton link, you'd have found a classic 3 way project: boxsim-db.de | Boxsim Projektdatenbank
It's rather good, IMO. The standard varies a bit with some of the other projects. The nice ones have a good flat impedance IMO.
Troels has done loads too: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Troels' implementation is very good on impedance. A master-class in how to do these things.
A 4" mid tends to struggle to keep up on power handling. But you could double them up, or use a 5".
But they all have a Steen Duelund target response which just works like a dream. Get simming. it takes 2 minutes to import the BPJ file to Boxsim! Then fiddle with it! The optimiser usually has a good stab at getting it right. You just mark the components in red you want it to adjust.
Attachments
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thanks
thanks system much more clear now! I'll try to workaround the classic visaton example! Didn't know about Steen Duelund target response, just googling now. very interesting guy
any other suggestion about driver choice for a 3 way crossover? TY so much
thanks system much more clear now! I'll try to workaround the classic visaton example! Didn't know about Steen Duelund target response, just googling now. very interesting guy
any other suggestion about driver choice for a 3 way crossover? TY so much
I always give very comprehensive answers, but it's up to you to do the work!
If you'd followed the Visaton link, you'd have found a classic 3 way project: boxsim-db.de | Boxsim Projektdatenbank
It's rather good, IMO. The standard varies a bit with some of the other projects. The nice ones have a good flat impedance IMO.
Troels has done loads too: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Troels' implementation is very good on impedance. A master-class in how to do these things.
A 4" mid tends to struggle to keep up on power handling. But you could double them up, or use a 5".
But they all have a Steen Duelund target response which just works like a dream. Get simming. it takes 2 minutes to import the BPJ file to Boxsim! Then fiddle with it! The optimiser usually has a good stab at getting it right. You just mark the components in red you want it to adjust.
Danny_66 seems to build a pretty good speaker!
Choice is endless really. But what you do find is some drivers play nicely together and some just force you to abandon them.
A good mid is loud and flat and has extended frequency response. A really good one is a slightly different animal from a midbass because it doesn't have to go low. Then everything falls into place very easily.
I've struggled with low impedance on the midrange, but then realised I simply need a louder mid that allows me to add some resistance. Or a tweeter that simply doesn't get loud enough is best abandoned because it allows no leeway on the filter design.
Troels' 3 way classic is just great driver choice at heart. FWIW, I'd suspect the CA22RNX would do OK in closed box too. Qts up around 0.41 is near the 0.5 you look for in closed box. By the time you add a bass coil which affects Qts it won't be far off.
Less than 0.38 Qts is your classic reflex driver.
Closed box woofers, with smaller magnets are quite rare these days. I'd have to look around. Bear something in mind with these sims, is that a speaker you sim flat will sound a lot bassier in the real room.
Choice is endless really. But what you do find is some drivers play nicely together and some just force you to abandon them.
A good mid is loud and flat and has extended frequency response. A really good one is a slightly different animal from a midbass because it doesn't have to go low. Then everything falls into place very easily.
I've struggled with low impedance on the midrange, but then realised I simply need a louder mid that allows me to add some resistance. Or a tweeter that simply doesn't get loud enough is best abandoned because it allows no leeway on the filter design.
Troels' 3 way classic is just great driver choice at heart. FWIW, I'd suspect the CA22RNX would do OK in closed box too. Qts up around 0.41 is near the 0.5 you look for in closed box. By the time you add a bass coil which affects Qts it won't be far off.
Less than 0.38 Qts is your classic reflex driver.
Closed box woofers, with smaller magnets are quite rare these days. I'd have to look around. Bear something in mind with these sims, is that a speaker you sim flat will sound a lot bassier in the real room.
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I was looking at a WWMT design like that, Lojzek: boxsim-db.de | Boxsim Projektdatenbank
Not without problems. Very low impedance with the execution above. Two 4 ohm woofers in series might look better. You could then use a 8 ohm mid too if I'm guessing right. There's a lot of commercial speakers being built this way now. Good WAF and I suppose they go well with home cinema.
IMO, you don't really need to throw big money on drivers with a three way. Because nothing should be really getting pushed too hard or outside its comfort zone.
Not without problems. Very low impedance with the execution above. Two 4 ohm woofers in series might look better. You could then use a 8 ohm mid too if I'm guessing right. There's a lot of commercial speakers being built this way now. Good WAF and I suppose they go well with home cinema.
IMO, you don't really need to throw big money on drivers with a three way. Because nothing should be really getting pushed too hard or outside its comfort zone.
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I just ran this 5" WWMT idea up the flagpole: boxsim-db.de | Boxsim Projektdatenbank
It wasn't very hard. I just lifted the Troels circuit again and adjusted the bass section for 16 ohms. It's about as close to an off-the-shelf filter as I've seen!
SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Voila! Looks good enough to me. That little bump at 1.3kHz is just what cheapie 5" drivers do. Shouldn't sound too awful, a bit of vocal presence really. I'm guessing almost any 5" drivers will be doable. You just adjust a couple of resistors.
Much nicer impedance than the original Visaton project, IMO. Boxsim says about 60Wpc is about where it maxes out.
It wasn't very hard. I just lifted the Troels circuit again and adjusted the bass section for 16 ohms. It's about as close to an off-the-shelf filter as I've seen!
SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Voila! Looks good enough to me. That little bump at 1.3kHz is just what cheapie 5" drivers do. Shouldn't sound too awful, a bit of vocal presence really. I'm guessing almost any 5" drivers will be doable. You just adjust a couple of resistors.
Much nicer impedance than the original Visaton project, IMO. Boxsim says about 60Wpc is about where it maxes out.
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It's whatever you want to do, really.
This is a very good Peerless 830860 midbass, which is also affordable:
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
The WWMT idea with three identical midbasses is going to be a less distorted sound than the regular MTM in theory. I don't suppose it'll actually go louder. But the midrange ought to be cleaner because the mid is spared bass duties, so less intermodulation distortion.
It will go MUCH louder than an MT. Doubling the basses is a very good idea if you want a slim speaker. And by some magic which not many people understand, twin basses go 4 times as loud for the same distortion, which is 6dB on a frequency response plot.
I compare an MT with this WWMT below:
This is a very good Peerless 830860 midbass, which is also affordable:
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
The WWMT idea with three identical midbasses is going to be a less distorted sound than the regular MTM in theory. I don't suppose it'll actually go louder. But the midrange ought to be cleaner because the mid is spared bass duties, so less intermodulation distortion.
It will go MUCH louder than an MT. Doubling the basses is a very good idea if you want a slim speaker. And by some magic which not many people understand, twin basses go 4 times as loud for the same distortion, which is 6dB on a frequency response plot.
I compare an MT with this WWMT below:
Attachments
System thanks for your tips, you made me change my mind at a point...I'm going to do a 2-ways speaker using those two:
https://loudspeakerfreaks.com/datasheets/scanspeak/d3004-662000.pdf
https://loudspeakerfreaks.com/datasheets/scanspeak/18w-4531g00.pdf
What do you think of?
A floor standing 3-way using 1" dome + 5" midrange + 8" woofer is a good choice for a modest volume room since it will use the same floor area as a stand+2way, isolate the sealed midrange for optimum performance, and deliver ~32Hz bass with simple Xover adjustment circuits which can manage room-placement effects.
Variations of the Astasia design, or a truncated pyramid cabinet are well discussed. The SB-Acoustics drivers are considered a good value for their sound quality.
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/309368-coming-scene-3.html#post5118696
Variations of the Astasia design, or a truncated pyramid cabinet are well discussed. The SB-Acoustics drivers are considered a good value for their sound quality.
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/309368-coming-scene-3.html#post5118696
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Have you considered the SB Acoustics Satori 6" driver?
IMO based on what People have told me and what I have read(have not heard Them in a direct comparison) - Better than any of the revelators. 18W May be a bit better in regards to bass (bigger membrane ) - but in regards to midrange the Satori is the winner. And they are cheaper than revelators - but quality wise the same
IMO based on what People have told me and what I have read(have not heard Them in a direct comparison) - Better than any of the revelators. 18W May be a bit better in regards to bass (bigger membrane ) - but in regards to midrange the Satori is the winner. And they are cheaper than revelators - but quality wise the same
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