I have the itch to build some speakers, having recently been liberated from the confines of desktop/nearfield placement. I'd like to build some modestly-sized floorstanders.
So I've been looking for an already-designed "higher end" kit, and came across Jeff Bagby's Solstice MLTL. The kit price seems to be a pretty good value (given the cost of the raw drivers). The flat pack kit is a huge plus for me too. And the designer's reputation speaks for itself.
Just wondering if anyone here has any experience with them, and or any thoughts on them in general? One thing I'm particularly curious about is the high frequency roll-off above 10kHz. I certainly don't claim any expertise, but most of the speaker frequency response graphs generally seem pretty flat up to 20kHz. Despite that, it seems all the impressions I've read about these speakers are overwhelmingly positive.
So I've been looking for an already-designed "higher end" kit, and came across Jeff Bagby's Solstice MLTL. The kit price seems to be a pretty good value (given the cost of the raw drivers). The flat pack kit is a huge plus for me too. And the designer's reputation speaks for itself.
Just wondering if anyone here has any experience with them, and or any thoughts on them in general? One thing I'm particularly curious about is the high frequency roll-off above 10kHz. I certainly don't claim any expertise, but most of the speaker frequency response graphs generally seem pretty flat up to 20kHz. Despite that, it seems all the impressions I've read about these speakers are overwhelmingly positive.
I didn't mean to suggest it was a problem... I just find it curious, it seems rare to see a pre-20kHz roll-off on well-regarded multi-way speakers.
From my naive perspective, I assume it's not easy to keep the frequency response flat all the way from the lowest the woofer+enclosure can do, all the way up to 20k. Is it "cheating" if you let the speaker have a high-end F3 of 16kHz or lower? Why don't we see this in more designs?
I'd prefer to use nice solid ply. But my perspective is this: I currently lack the tools to build such an enclosure. So I have the upfront added cost of buying a decent saw and router (which I intend to do someday). Even once I acquire the tools, I'd like to first practice using them on some cheaper designs. So while MDF may be sub-optimal, it's for me a worthwhile trade-off for convenience. Also, given the cost of the drivers alone, the crossover parts and enclosure kit are basically free. If these speakers totally blow my mind, I can always build a new enclosure down the road out of better wood.
In short, impatience.
The Solstice gets positive reviews, and I am curious what the polar measurements look like. Anyone take measurements?
The Solstice is a basic two-way design, with both woofers working together in parallel over the same frequency range. The C-to-C distance between the tweeter and lower midbass is 11", and a basic Xdir simulation shows lobing which warns of soundstage changes when the listener is above/below the narrow center lobe.
The Solstice is a basic two-way design, with both woofers working together in parallel over the same frequency range. The C-to-C distance between the tweeter and lower midbass is 11", and a basic Xdir simulation shows lobing which warns of soundstage changes when the listener is above/below the narrow center lobe.
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It is amazing, for basically an 8" 2-way.
Very revealing, sounds fine sit/stand, very very wide dispersion.
Baffle step included.
They go suprisingly deep, like a small deep sub hiding somewhere.
The drivers alone cost more than the kit.
Depending on music type, size of room, volume levels, etc, you never really know if it will work for you.
At my seat, it is awesome (6-7'), but my system has to fill a large 24 x 24 but sort of L shaped that opens to a hallway.
So, my wife puts in kid rock, and it falls flat.
Even Stained "for you" and "epiphany" at louder than tv volumes, 15' away, i need more mid bass, and i've had double 15's to 750hz for 15 years, it is hard for me to get by with less impact bass.
And horn tweet is more impactful (um yea).
I have a new used receiver coming, i may have my solstice hooked up for "intimate" lower volume stuff then switch to my 2. 12" 2-ways.
Solstice is an amazing speaker.
Very revealing.
I could justify and say they are worth at least $3k in a store with these, easy.
And that is a lot of scratch for me.
Heard 20k ones that made me scratch my head.
Very revealing, sounds fine sit/stand, very very wide dispersion.
Baffle step included.
They go suprisingly deep, like a small deep sub hiding somewhere.
The drivers alone cost more than the kit.
Depending on music type, size of room, volume levels, etc, you never really know if it will work for you.
At my seat, it is awesome (6-7'), but my system has to fill a large 24 x 24 but sort of L shaped that opens to a hallway.
So, my wife puts in kid rock, and it falls flat.
Even Stained "for you" and "epiphany" at louder than tv volumes, 15' away, i need more mid bass, and i've had double 15's to 750hz for 15 years, it is hard for me to get by with less impact bass.
And horn tweet is more impactful (um yea).
I have a new used receiver coming, i may have my solstice hooked up for "intimate" lower volume stuff then switch to my 2. 12" 2-ways.
Solstice is an amazing speaker.
Very revealing.
I could justify and say they are worth at least $3k in a store with these, easy.
And that is a lot of scratch for me.
Heard 20k ones that made me scratch my head.
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Thank you
I have a large room too 18 by 20 and the right side opens out into an open area - so no right side wall
I was wondering if my 80W Naim Stereo amplifier is adequate.
My current setup is a pair of standmounts backed up by a 10 inch sealed subwoofer so i was thinking of replacing the standmounts with these Solistices.
The standmounts are Merlin TSM MMM BME from USA which again use Morel version tweeters and 6 inch midbass .
So i was hoping for more of the same but in a larger glass
The mentioned 87dB of the Solstice makes me a bit wary as my current speakers are also 87dB but the amp has to drive only 2 drivers ( TM ) per speaker.
I do have the room for a larger speaker but i guess in a budget of USD 1200 for DiY parts alone - this one caught my eye.
Its hard to get used to bass from lower diameter drivers i agree..
Request you to kindly put up a pic of your setup if possible
Many thanks
Best regards
I have a large room too 18 by 20 and the right side opens out into an open area - so no right side wall
I was wondering if my 80W Naim Stereo amplifier is adequate.
My current setup is a pair of standmounts backed up by a 10 inch sealed subwoofer so i was thinking of replacing the standmounts with these Solistices.
The standmounts are Merlin TSM MMM BME from USA which again use Morel version tweeters and 6 inch midbass .
So i was hoping for more of the same but in a larger glass
The mentioned 87dB of the Solstice makes me a bit wary as my current speakers are also 87dB but the amp has to drive only 2 drivers ( TM ) per speaker.
I do have the room for a larger speaker but i guess in a budget of USD 1200 for DiY parts alone - this one caught my eye.
Its hard to get used to bass from lower diameter drivers i agree..
Request you to kindly put up a pic of your setup if possible
Many thanks
Best regards
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Dear Norman
Much appreciate..
Once you get your new receiver and hook up the Solstices - please let me know your impressions
Its hard to develop a the taste to listen to smaller drivers when the ears are used to the ease of larger drivers like a 15 inchers..
Thanks once again..
regards
Np.
Solstice.
I only bought 1, lol.
I had it hooked up to a tweaked out altec 9440a (power supply bypass caps and .1uf bypass feedback cap added). Within its limits it was magical.
Just not my cup of tea.
Nor was pair of 6db time aligned thiel 3-way cs2.
Again, amazing, just not for me.
My buddy came to the conclusion he couldn't live with less than dual 12's a side.
I may agree with that for me (volume, music, and large room size).
I don't like a crossover point 100-300, deep voices, drum runs, and bass guitar sound "off" to me.
But i don't mind running a sub along with the speakers.
I may sell it or part it out (my solstice).
Think I'd take it somewhere and have them wrap and ship it ($100 probably) so no damage to box.
Solstice.
I only bought 1, lol.
I had it hooked up to a tweaked out altec 9440a (power supply bypass caps and .1uf bypass feedback cap added). Within its limits it was magical.
Just not my cup of tea.
Nor was pair of 6db time aligned thiel 3-way cs2.
Again, amazing, just not for me.
My buddy came to the conclusion he couldn't live with less than dual 12's a side.
I may agree with that for me (volume, music, and large room size).
I don't like a crossover point 100-300, deep voices, drum runs, and bass guitar sound "off" to me.
But i don't mind running a sub along with the speakers.
I may sell it or part it out (my solstice).
Think I'd take it somewhere and have them wrap and ship it ($100 probably) so no damage to box.
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I did! I think I finished them in mid- to late-2017.
In short, they sound great to me. But I don't claim to have the most discerning ear, not by any means. Also, I have them in a fairly small room: 10' wide by 11' long by 9' high. The only "soft" surfaces in this room are a floor rug, a lightly-padded office chair, and a window curtain. All the other surfaces are hard (wood, drywall, or glass).
With the room being fairly small, and a general preference for moderate volume levels (<85 dB), my napkin math says I probably never push much more than one watt into these speakers. Maybe a few watts on the rare occasion I can crank them, and probably dozens of short-team transient peak watts. But, generally, I keep them fairly quiet. (And these days, when I do turn them up, it's usually so I can play along with my guitar, so it could hardly be called critical listening.)
I've never had a speaker with drivers bigger than what's in the pair of Solstices, and I haven't used a sub for many years (never in this room). Despite that, the Solstice speakers have more bass than any other speaker I've ever used (excluding subs, of course), which was something I really wanted: the ability to get decent bass without a sub.
In short, I certainly don't have any complaints. But all the above was largely meant as a disclaimer that I probably haven't been as critical or discerning as some folks might be.
I guess not being too critical or discerning means that you enjoy the music in your room and thats very nice matt
Request you to please let me know the amplifier you use to power the Solstices...and your source ( CD playback ? )
Mine is a large room 18 x 20 ( 1 side full open ) so i wonder if it will be too much for them or maybe i might need a sub ?
I understand that in your room the woofers dont have to exert too much so thats a good thing for you. That plays to the strength of the Morel drivers i guess.
Have you done any room treatment ?
Are the speakers too revealing of poor recordings ? ( Many of the rock music on CD's are not well recorded i guess )
A pic of your system will be nice..
Many thanks !
regards
Sorry for the delayed reply, finally got around to grabbing some pics!
Currently using a Modulus-86 as the power amp. (Though I have all the stuff for a 3e Audio tpa3251 amp, just haven't made time to assemble it.)
Source is a Raspberry Pi, either serving from my own Flac-ripped CD collection via MPD, or Spotify via spotifyd. The DAC I'm currently using is the Topping DX3Pro, though I've also used my own simple tda1387 DACs.
I think it's too hard to say, depends on how loud you like your music, how deeply you need to "feel" the bass, room treatments, etc...
The area rug on the floor is the only thing that could possibly count as treatment. Lots of hard surfaces in the room, it's almost all glass or wood.
For me, it's a matter of how much deliberate close/critical listening I do. When I first built them, I was big on deliberately seeking out recordings with known good sound quality. I wasn't doing super-serious critical listening, but I would try to "listen to the sound" rather than "listen to the music" to try and discern if different amps or DACs sounded better. In that regard, I thought they worked reasonably well. But as you can see from the pics, my listening position is sub-optimal: there's a huge desk between the speakers and my chair!
Now that the focus of my free time has shifted away from building audio electronics, I do more casual listening. And I've been revisiting a lot of my existing music collection, which includes a significant amount of rock music. So far I haven't encountered a poor recording so bad I couldn't enjoy the music. But, it's possible, if I were to change my approach --- that is, do more focused, critical listening, it's possible I could encounter some qualities that would subtract from my enjoyment.
Hopefully that sorta makes sense!
Currently using a Modulus-86 as the power amp. (Though I have all the stuff for a 3e Audio tpa3251 amp, just haven't made time to assemble it.)
Source is a Raspberry Pi, either serving from my own Flac-ripped CD collection via MPD, or Spotify via spotifyd. The DAC I'm currently using is the Topping DX3Pro, though I've also used my own simple tda1387 DACs.
I think it's too hard to say, depends on how loud you like your music, how deeply you need to "feel" the bass, room treatments, etc...
The area rug on the floor is the only thing that could possibly count as treatment. Lots of hard surfaces in the room, it's almost all glass or wood.
For me, it's a matter of how much deliberate close/critical listening I do. When I first built them, I was big on deliberately seeking out recordings with known good sound quality. I wasn't doing super-serious critical listening, but I would try to "listen to the sound" rather than "listen to the music" to try and discern if different amps or DACs sounded better. In that regard, I thought they worked reasonably well. But as you can see from the pics, my listening position is sub-optimal: there's a huge desk between the speakers and my chair!
Now that the focus of my free time has shifted away from building audio electronics, I do more casual listening. And I've been revisiting a lot of my existing music collection, which includes a significant amount of rock music. So far I haven't encountered a poor recording so bad I couldn't enjoy the music. But, it's possible, if I were to change my approach --- that is, do more focused, critical listening, it's possible I could encounter some qualities that would subtract from my enjoyment.
Hopefully that sorta makes sense!
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Matt
Thanks for the pictures they look really lovely indeed..
i guess casual listening is best because we are there for the enjoyment of music..
critical listening is a fallacy / a mirage - as one cannot hope to recreate in totality what the artist intended..
I guess the Solstice are rather enjoyable speakers to have
It a bit sad thay PE will not sell ( minus the flatpack kit ) as the wood adds to a lot of the freight charges to me to India.
I hope to make up my mind soon enough...
Thank you !
Best wishes
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Thanks for the pictures they look really lovely indeed..
i guess casual listening is best because we are there for the enjoyment of music..
critical listening is a fallacy / a mirage - as one cannot hope to recreate in totality what the artist intended..
I guess the Solstice are rather enjoyable speakers to have
It a bit sad thay PE will not sell ( minus the flatpack kit ) as the wood adds to a lot of the freight charges to me to India.
I hope to make up my mind soon enough...
Thank you !
Best wishes
=========================================
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Matt, nice.
Mine have become my main.
Now that i have the variable loudness knob dialed in, they ring all my bells.
Not for Rihanna or dub step, but i listen daily to hours of classic or hard rock through the radio.
My jbls are off to the kid.
A/b speaker test was startling when comparing the 2 speakers.
Mine have become my main.
Now that i have the variable loudness knob dialed in, they ring all my bells.
Not for Rihanna or dub step, but i listen daily to hours of classic or hard rock through the radio.
My jbls are off to the kid.
A/b speaker test was startling when comparing the 2 speakers.
I finished my Solstice speakers in April, and like them allot. I find they sound best with tweeters at ear level. My room is about 15' x 12', and I like them spaced about 9' apart. I find them to be very fussy with amplifiers. I've tried allot of amps, the best being solid-state McIntosh. Although I try to just listen to the music, many recordings make my jaw drop with chills running down my spine, as they can sound incredibly lifelike. Imaging and depth are amazing, they are coherent and seamless. I used to listen to music a couple times a month, but with the Solstice, I listen every day, and am back to vinyl too. One last comment, they produce very accurate bass with good definition.
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