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CBT24 line array speakers
CBT24 line array speakers
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Old 28th July 2017, 09:07 PM   #1
jayce996 is offline jayce996
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Default CBT24 line array speakers

Hello guys,
i've heard recently a duo of Epique CBT24 Line Array speakers with dual Dayton audio Ultimax Sub woofers 18", a very impressive combination but the configuration was a very very high end build with KRELL & MBL amplifiers, Rosita DAC, Tube Pre-Amps, etc ...
I would like to do something more affordable but also oriented as well to Home Cinema needs.
Here are the points where i'm not really clear and would like to get your inputs:
- anyone has had good experience with line array speakers in home theater configuration? if yes:
- my system will be driven by an EMOTIVA XMC-1 pre-amp
- main speakers would be the CBT24
- Sealed Subs would be one size smaller: Dayton Audio Ultimax on 15"
I'm now looking for help on these points:
- Do i need a DSP per channel or the XMC-1 with its dirac LIVE would be enough?
- which Class D power amps with (or without) DSP would be good to drive both sub & line array speaker in each side? ideally one Amp to drive both Full range & sub?
- which would be the best central & rear speakers DIY speakers to accompany these main speakers? smaller vers of line array speakers?
- which power amplifier would be good for these 3 other speakers?

Thanks!

Last edited by jayce996; 2nd August 2017 at 07:43 AM. Reason: Corrected the name to Epique and not Prestige
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Old 30th July 2017, 09:28 PM   #2
jayce996 is offline jayce996
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nobody for me?
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Old 31st July 2017, 02:20 AM   #3
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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So, how expensive? You could get some very nice line-array results with a much smaller array and higher quality drivers.

For instance, what about 4x 5-6" mid-woofers, and anywhere from 1x to 8x tweeters.

In terms of the crossover, you could do this all with a traditional passive crossover, and use the XMC-1's subwoofer output. This would really simplify your electronics.

OTOH, of course, you could go all DSP crossover, which has some advantages if you have enough amps.

Best,


E
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Last edited by eriksquires; 31st July 2017 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 31st July 2017, 09:00 AM   #4
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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I wouldn't compare a small array to a larger one. There are rather large differences between how those two concepts behave.
However I have no hands on experience with the backwards bend CBT.

We do have some members with hands on experience, if you wade trough this thread (mostly at the end of it):
An Improved Array
You'll find some experienced opinions on CBT24 within the discussion. Both Omholt and Rick Craig have experience with the CBT arrays.

Hope this helps...
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Last edited by wesayso; 31st July 2017 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 31st July 2017, 11:20 AM   #5
silverprout is offline silverprout  France
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About Don Keele

Don Keele has worked for a number of companies in the area of loudspeaker R&D and measurement technology including Electro-Voice, Klipsch, JBL, Crown, and Harman International. He is an AES fellow and holds eight patents with topics including “constant-directivity” loudspeaker horns, loudspeaker arrays, and signal processing. Currently, he heads his own consulting company, DBK Associates and Labs. His passion for the last 16 years has been to promote the use of CBT loudspeaker technology in the loudspeaker industry. Mr. Keele holds two BS degrees (EE and Physics) and an MSEE with minor in acoustics. Since 1972 he has presented and published 50 technical papers, among them the paper for which he won the AES Publication Award, “Low-Frequency Loudspeaker Assessment by Nearfield Sound-Pressure Measurement.” In 2002 he received a Scientific and Engineering Academy Award from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences for work he did on cinema constant-directivity loudspeakers.
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Old 31st July 2017, 11:29 AM   #6
jayce996 is offline jayce996
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thank you very much i'll give it a try there.
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Old 31st July 2017, 11:32 AM   #7
jayce996 is offline jayce996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverprout View Post
About Don Keele

Don Keele has worked for a number of companies in the area of loudspeaker R&D and measurement technology including Electro-Voice, Klipsch, JBL, Crown, and Harman International. He is an AES fellow and holds eight patents with topics including “constant-directivity” loudspeaker horns, loudspeaker arrays, and signal processing. Currently, he heads his own consulting company, DBK Associates and Labs. His passion for the last 16 years has been to promote the use of CBT loudspeaker technology in the loudspeaker industry. Mr. Keele holds two BS degrees (EE and Physics) and an MSEE with minor in acoustics. Since 1972 he has presented and published 50 technical papers, among them the paper for which he won the AES Publication Award, “Low-Frequency Loudspeaker Assessment by Nearfield Sound-Pressure Measurement.” In 2002 he received a Scientific and Engineering Academy Award from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences for work he did on cinema constant-directivity loudspeakers.
yes, i saw that too, and for this reason and the fact that i've had the chance to hear these speakers once, i'm quite confident with his work and build ;-) but would like to see if i afford such results with my config & my needs (Hifi + HC)
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Old 31st July 2017, 04:07 PM   #8
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Hi Wesayso,

I'm sure you know your stuff, but can you summarize the difference between a limited line array and larger?

I knew about the limited vertical dispersion. Is there more?

Best,

E
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Old 31st July 2017, 07:34 PM   #9
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Searching for old posts by Speaker Dave on the array topic would be more telling than anything I could write up on the subject. He's written a lot about the differences in several posts scattered around this forum. His research paper(s) are uploaded in one of those posts too.

If one does consider using a short array, a form of (power) shading would certainly be something to consider. I'd always go for tall (floor to ceiling) arrays myself.

The way the CBT is build has shading applied too, both in power as well as over time (the backwards bend).
It's strength comes from the number of drivers used, that tends to average out a lot of (in room) reflections due to location and path differences from each separate driver in that array to the listening spot.
There's more at work than load sharing between drivers alone in these arrays.

I can't comment on driver quality of the CBT's. I never looked them up or know what they are. If they are of good quality, their numbers will make them even better. In line arrays you do tend to get back what you used on steroids, warts and all. So it's best to start with good quality. I assume Don has that part under control.
I know there's even a full range based CBT added to the CBT line up. Maybe the growing number of (full range) line arrays on these forums had something to do with that.

I've been asking around for a set of measurements of the (original) CBT arrays without any luck so far. Aside from what Don published there isn't much out there. I'd like to see a little more than what he published so far.

To the OP: I love my straight, full range line arrays for Home Theatre duty. I don't use a center channel, so can't comment on that. I do have ambient channels which do double duty for Home Theatre. Those are single full range drivers of good quality that use diffusion to create the ambience(*). It works surprisingly well for home theatre too.
I do use a healthy dose of processing for my setup, more about that here...

I don't dare give any advise on amplifiers... It would make more sense to me to use one amp for sub duty, another for the arrays. As you'd be able to get what you need for each channel.

(*) a virtual Haas Kicker is a better description.
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Last edited by wesayso; 31st July 2017 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 31st July 2017, 08:10 PM   #10
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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My bad, that CBT24 in the OP is the full range version. A quick google search I did before probably showed me some CBT36's as I did see some tweeters before.

I was too late to edit.
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