Well, after much deliberation and a moment of clarity, I have decided NOT to build the J-Low Horn from Pass DIY (although I WILL do this at some point) in favor of the modest Lyra (details on the speaker here ).
I need to know a few things before I begin and since eveyone's been so helpful in the past, here are my questions:
The inductors that he has listed in his crossover schematic are listed as 16awg and 18awg. First, I'm hoping this means the same thing as "GA"-- wire gauge. Secondly, Parts Express only has 20GA air core inductors. Will it be a problem if I use these? If so, is there another place you'd recommend I shop to get the right gauge?
Also (and this is a really dumb one), where do you put the crossover circuit in the speaker? I mean, if you put it in the wrong place, it will interfere with the operation of the speaker, right?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give a schmuck like me. The first correct response will be in a drawing to win a pair of mittens or a scarf knitted by Mrs. Annan.
Also, if you can recommend similar speakers in this price range that you think would do better, be my guest.
Kofi
I need to know a few things before I begin and since eveyone's been so helpful in the past, here are my questions:
The inductors that he has listed in his crossover schematic are listed as 16awg and 18awg. First, I'm hoping this means the same thing as "GA"-- wire gauge. Secondly, Parts Express only has 20GA air core inductors. Will it be a problem if I use these? If so, is there another place you'd recommend I shop to get the right gauge?
Also (and this is a really dumb one), where do you put the crossover circuit in the speaker? I mean, if you put it in the wrong place, it will interfere with the operation of the speaker, right?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give a schmuck like me. The first correct response will be in a drawing to win a pair of mittens or a scarf knitted by Mrs. Annan.
Also, if you can recommend similar speakers in this price range that you think would do better, be my guest.
Kofi
Awg can be thought of as GA
You can mount the X/O anywhere you wish, even externally in a small box. I usually mount mine to teh back wall. I use peg board to mount everything and then screw it to the wall putting rubber washers on the screw. I use the washers on both sides so the peg board floats and does not vibrate. There are probably a million ways to do this, you can't go wrong as long as everything is very secure...Lyras have lots of thunder in them!
Have fun
You can mount the X/O anywhere you wish, even externally in a small box. I usually mount mine to teh back wall. I use peg board to mount everything and then screw it to the wall putting rubber washers on the screw. I use the washers on both sides so the peg board floats and does not vibrate. There are probably a million ways to do this, you can't go wrong as long as everything is very secure...Lyras have lots of thunder in them!
Have fun
Kofi Annan said:
Maybe you need to have a better look at PE
http://www.partsexpress.com/aircoreinductorpage.html
14,15,18,20 Awg all listed.
Inductors
Kofi,
AWG stands for American wire gauge. The 20 gauge inductors will work but heavier gauge inductors are better due to their lower resistance.
It's best to keep a little distance between the drivers and the inductors in order to prevent magnetic linkage. Consider making the XO external.
Cheers,
Gaucho
ERSE inductors are avaliable at Zalytron:
http://www.zalytron.com
Kofi,
AWG stands for American wire gauge. The 20 gauge inductors will work but heavier gauge inductors are better due to their lower resistance.
It's best to keep a little distance between the drivers and the inductors in order to prevent magnetic linkage. Consider making the XO external.
Cheers,
Gaucho
ERSE inductors are avaliable at Zalytron:
http://www.zalytron.com
You're right! However, there still doesn't seem to be any 16awgs and the 18s I need are not there.
Cool, but did you mean that the lighter gauge inductors are better due to lower resistance? I'm not challenging here, just asking.
In other words, if my gauge is not available at Parts Express, should I go heavier or lighter?
Thanks again for all the great advice! I can't wait to order and get to work!
Kofi
Ahhh... wait a minute, here... Kofi is having a revelation.
This is just like the time I came up with the idea for UN Resolution 1441.
I think the lower the gauge number the heavier the gauge... right?!? If so, Gaucho's advice makes sense.
I need to stick to international conflict resolution. This DIY audio stuff is too taxing on the brain.
Can someone please confirm my wire gauge 101 question? Also, I need someone to wipe my nose.
Kofi
This is just like the time I came up with the idea for UN Resolution 1441.
I think the lower the gauge number the heavier the gauge... right?!? If so, Gaucho's advice makes sense.
I need to stick to international conflict resolution. This DIY audio stuff is too taxing on the brain.
Can someone please confirm my wire gauge 101 question? Also, I need someone to wipe my nose.
Kofi
Ok the wire gauge matter sorted, a good place to put the crossover is as on terminal panel together with input contacts.
Easily accesible when tweaking and simple wireplacement.
A good idea for the smaller caps is to parallell 1u250V polypropylene (Philips for instance) up to desired value.
Easy to change and a cheap way to attain top quality caps.
Easily accesible when tweaking and simple wireplacement.
A good idea for the smaller caps is to parallell 1u250V polypropylene (Philips for instance) up to desired value.
Easy to change and a cheap way to attain top quality caps.
Thanks!
This is some sort of knockout panel on the back of the speaker, I'd guess?
Actually, I just realized that I would have to add caps in parallel to get to the right values. I am planning on ordering Dayton polyprop caps for most of the capacitors (exception: there's a 60uF cap for the woofer and I'm going to use a non-polarized electrolytic for that one at the recommendation of someone on the speakerbuilder.net forum).
I'm going to use some .05uF polyester film caps in parallel with the Dayton polyprop caps to get to the right values. Will this cause a problem?
Also, in some cases, Parts Express did not stock the correct gauge for the inductors and they did not have a heavier gauge, so I had to go with a lighter gauge (example: traded a 16awg for an 18 awg). Will this make a big difference?
If you think I need to order different caps for the project, please let me know, but I thought the Dayton caps would work fine in the configuration I'm aiming for.
Kofi
This is some sort of knockout panel on the back of the speaker, I'd guess?
Actually, I just realized that I would have to add caps in parallel to get to the right values. I am planning on ordering Dayton polyprop caps for most of the capacitors (exception: there's a 60uF cap for the woofer and I'm going to use a non-polarized electrolytic for that one at the recommendation of someone on the speakerbuilder.net forum).
I'm going to use some .05uF polyester film caps in parallel with the Dayton polyprop caps to get to the right values. Will this cause a problem?
Also, in some cases, Parts Express did not stock the correct gauge for the inductors and they did not have a heavier gauge, so I had to go with a lighter gauge (example: traded a 16awg for an 18 awg). Will this make a big difference?
If you think I need to order different caps for the project, please let me know, but I thought the Dayton caps would work fine in the configuration I'm aiming for.
Kofi
The polarized elyts are not in series with signal sothats ok but parallel a small filmtype to improve hf properties.
The parallel method is always a good thing and the caps You´re planning to use are good.
Internal wire- Use a good speakercable of moderate crossection area, a very heawy wire will need prolonged heat wile soldering and polypropylene (as most filmcaps ) are sensitive to overheating.
The parallel method is always a good thing and the caps You´re planning to use are good.
Right.
Internal wire- Use a good speakercable of moderate crossection area, a very heawy wire will need prolonged heat wile soldering and polypropylene (as most filmcaps ) are sensitive to overheating.
Thanks! That helps a lot.
Are you saying that instead of paralleling a 10uF and a 1uF polyprop together that I should use a 10uF polyprop and several small film-types together to achieve the correct uF value?
Also, what about the inductors? Again, Parts Express does not have inductors of certain values at the correct gauge. When I could increase the gauge I did so, but in some cases I was only able to decrease the gauge (i.e., from 18 awg to 16awg).
Will this cause a big problem? Should I try to order the correct gauge elsewhere?
Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.
Kofi
Are you saying that instead of paralleling a 10uF and a 1uF polyprop together that I should use a 10uF polyprop and several small film-types together to achieve the correct uF value?
Also, what about the inductors? Again, Parts Express does not have inductors of certain values at the correct gauge. When I could increase the gauge I did so, but in some cases I was only able to decrease the gauge (i.e., from 18 awg to 16awg).
Will this cause a big problem? Should I try to order the correct gauge elsewhere?
Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.
Kofi
You can parrallel two of the 18ga inductors to get a heavier inductor. An example to be real clear: place two 5mH coils (twice the desired final value) in parrallel to get: 2.5mH of inductance with 1/2 the DC resistance of one coil.
Not a big problem, you will just drop a little bit more voltage over the higher DC resistance. And if 16ga is the correct gauge 14,12 ,10...etc will be even more correct!
Good Luck,
Gaucho
OK-- last question, I think:
What's the deal with the "perfect layer" inductors. If I use these at 14awg in lieu of some of the 16awg / 18awg inductors, will this be OK?
Also, I am having to get 18awg in place of some 16awg inductors and I know that you (plural) have advised that this will be OK, but I am curious to know what the real drawback may be.
I know I'll drop some more voltage across the inductors, but as far as the sound goes, would I fly into an uncotrollable rage because it sucks so bad or would I only barely notice the difference between a midrange inductor at 20awg (bobbin-wound air core) and one at 18awg (air core, not bobbin-wound)?
Thanks again for all the advice. If there are any UN resolutions that anyone wants to recommend, I'd be happy to bring it up at the next open forum.
Kofi
What's the deal with the "perfect layer" inductors. If I use these at 14awg in lieu of some of the 16awg / 18awg inductors, will this be OK?
Also, I am having to get 18awg in place of some 16awg inductors and I know that you (plural) have advised that this will be OK, but I am curious to know what the real drawback may be.
I know I'll drop some more voltage across the inductors, but as far as the sound goes, would I fly into an uncotrollable rage because it sucks so bad or would I only barely notice the difference between a midrange inductor at 20awg (bobbin-wound air core) and one at 18awg (air core, not bobbin-wound)?
Thanks again for all the advice. If there are any UN resolutions that anyone wants to recommend, I'd be happy to bring it up at the next open forum.
Kofi
Gaucho said:
true. in fact i think that 2 x 18ga might sound better than 1 x 16ga. why?
well a few years ago i was trying to wind my own inductors. being a student of OVER engineering i decided to wind 12ga. man was that diffcult. the wire wold lold not cooperate. so to achieve the same DCR I took 2 x 14ga in parallel and wound with that. problem solved. later in the day i found a friend who was willing to wind me an inductor using 12ga (SWG) using a lathe machine.
when i replaced the my 2x14ga inductor with his 12ga inductor i was expecting a better sound but felt the sound quality had degraded. why i dont know. so i swtiched back to 2x14ga.
BTW "Perfect Lay" inductors are a brand. They use processes (might be a lathe machine) to wind inductors where hte wires are perfectly parallel and there are no air gaps. in fact i have seem hexa core inductors too where the wires have a hexagonal crosssection rahter than round. all this to reduce air gaps in the inductor. air gaps cause all sorts of losses that could be detailed/mentioned here but doing that would turn this post into a course in electronics.
Thanks for the explanation. I'd still like to know, however, if the sound difference between the midrange inductor at 20awg (bobbin-wound air core) and the inductor 18awg (air core, not bobbin-wound) is noticable to your average schmo.
Here's the crossover schematic if anyone wants to see it.
Only the 20awg, above, is available at Parts Express and I want to know if I should try to find another inductor elsewhere.
Kofi
Here's the crossover schematic if anyone wants to see it.
Only the 20awg, above, is available at Parts Express and I want to know if I should try to find another inductor elsewhere.
Kofi
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