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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 17th June 2017, 07:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Pallas View Post
Are you using a concentric and fitting a WG around the tweeter, a la Danley SM60?
No, I'm using a plain ol' car audio coaxial.

I think it's superior for a few reasons:

4) they're readily available at any Best Buy or Frys
3) Because they're ubiquitous, you get a lot of 'bang for the buck.' (Economies of scale)
2) The driver is smaller, which allows for a much smaller enclosure. I considered doing this project with a B&C concentric, but the B&C requires an enclosure the size of a melon, because the driver itself is so large
1) car audio coaxes come in elliptical shapes. Concentric drivers do not. An elliptical driver is a good match for an egg shaped enclosure. And you want to use an egg, not a sphere, because an egg has smoother frequency response and polar response. (Diffraction from baffle edges)

For a prosound solution, something like the B&C or BMC concentric are a solid choice, because their maximum output is much higher
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:27 PM   #12
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Didn't JBL make a speaker (not egg-shaped tho) that had the woofer output from a gap around the outside of a waveguide?

Since high powered class-D amps are also ubiquitous now, maybe put some perforations on the back of your egg and try to get some cardioid effect for lower frequencies? Your directivity as-is seems to be dropping off pretty dramatically at around 1500Hz or so, not exactly 'constant'. LF output SPL would suffer from the cardioid back-of-cabinet leaks, though.
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:29 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
But it's so much more fun to make things in 3D!
Why don't you simulate the waves propagation in your beautiful 3D models ?

PS : This model seems suffer from a lot of diffcation issues (but visualize them should be better).
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Old 17th June 2017, 10:55 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Here's why you might try it:

5) This speaker has controlled directivity over five octaves, which can improve imaging and inteligibility
4) This speaker is exceptionally small, which can be good for the WAF
3) This speaker is exceptionally cheap. A pair costs less than $100
2) This speaker is easy to build... If you have a 3D printer. There's no DSP, no fancy crossovers, all you need to do is build the enclosure
Well, it can't do any bass, so you actually do need a crossover to a bass, a subwoofer can't go high enough. Or a DSP and a 2nd amp. Which makes it app. 3x more expensive, likely even more. And because it has to be crossed over too high, you have to place the bass and the egg next to each other to not create completely different sound sources. There goes the WAF.

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1) This speaker is partially horn loaded, which improves the overall output
Uhm, no, it's not. Too short and too small. That's a wave guide at best. Simulate it and you'll see what it actually does. And because of its small size, it does not improve the level in the lower mids, that means the output isn't improved at all, you're still stuck at the spl given by the direct radiating part. Measure the spl.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
[..measurement..]

A few months ago I put a Tymphany TC9 in a 3D printed egg, and found that it worked well. The frequency response was good, the distortion was low.
It does not say anywhere at which spl and power it has been measured with, which makes it - and I'm sorry to say that - a completely useless measurement, it does not say anything. Repeat that at 85 and 95dB/1m.
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Old 18th June 2017, 12:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Didn't JBL make a speaker (not egg-shaped tho) that had the woofer output from a gap around the outside of a waveguide?

Since high powered class-D amps are also ubiquitous now, maybe put some perforations on the back of your egg and try to get some cardioid effect for lower frequencies? Your directivity as-is seems to be dropping off pretty dramatically at around 1500Hz or so, not exactly 'constant'. LF output SPL would suffer from the cardioid back-of-cabinet leaks, though.
You are correct Bill!

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

JBL uses their "RBI" technology in their ceiling speakers and their Vertec array.

What I am doing is very similar, it's just spherical.

Click the image to open in full size.

Also similar to JBL's "CMCD" drivers
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Old 18th June 2017, 02:47 AM   #16
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Those look like a similar idea, but the one I was remembering was a rectangular box speaker, had a waveguide covering most of the front and at the top and bottom were gaps in the baffle that were U-shaped (upside down U, at the top) openings the woofer pressure came out of. They were little guys for table or stand-mount. Maybe it wasn't JBL?
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Old 18th June 2017, 03:16 AM   #17
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Ah, it wasn't JBL, it was Genelec -- this one:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:02 PM   #18
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Interesting, I didn't realize that those slots were more than cosmetic

Here's the science behind it:

http://www.audioxpress.com/article/r...ial-sam-system

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 18th June 2017 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:15 PM   #19
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Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Here's some pics of my "eggstravaganza"

It was exceptionally difficult to print, and I had to graft it together from a few print. The inside of the enclosure is lined with mortite to make it airtight and to provide damping
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:48 PM   #20
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Interesting, I didn't realize that those slots were more than cosmetic
Hm? Pallas already posted visually excellent understandable pictures with arrows and explanation what it is.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
It was exceptionally difficult to print, and I had to graft it together from a few print.
Why make it harder than it has to be? You could print the wave guide for the tweeter separately and glue it in later. And since you need to be able to mount the drivers anyway, why not print the two main egg parts with the surface of the mid driver facing down? That way you get a perfectly level mounting for the driver. And if you have to redo any part of it, you don't waste as much printing material.
Anyway, there goes your initial points 2+3..
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