Good tips, thanks
So you prefer the 7" Revelator Midrange (the one with Ti coil is the 18M you talked about?) over the 18WE, or was the 18W Revelator (non midrange line) was only benchmarked with the 18 WE (Elliptocor) ?
That is odd to marry a very good midrange to an AMT because of the odd radiation pattern of those planar tweeters plus their higher distorsion... well as far cymbals and trumpets are correctly sounding in the soundstage, it is ok !
I prefer the Ellipticor 18WE over the Revelator 18W (I think that's what you asked). I can't say whether or not I prefer the 18M, I have not used that driver yet, but I have it and will in my next build. From what I've read, the 18M sounds and responds very similarly to the 18W, it's just more efficient and doesn't play as low. If this is true, then I prefer the 18WE midrange over the 18M as well. Not saying the Revelator is bad by any stretch, I just think the 18WE is better (in the midrange). But I'll know for sure soon enough in my next build (TMWW with Raal 70-20 / Revelator 18M / aluminum SS 22W), I'm looking forward to hearing that Raal beside the Mundorf.Good tips, thanks
So you prefer the 7" Revelator Midrange (the one with Ti coil is the 18M you talked about?) over the 18WE, or was the 18W Revelator (non midrange line) was only benchmarked with the 18 WE (Elliptocor) ?
That is odd to marry a very good midrange to an AMT because of the odd radiation pattern of those planar tweeters plus their higher distorsion... well as far cymbals and trumpets are correctly sounding in the soundstage, it is ok !
I don't understand your second comment. Are you saying it's only good to put an AMT with a very bad midrange? Have you ever used a Mundorf AMT? I've used a plethora of many different tweeters, normally I don't like AMTs at all, but this Mundorf is very good, I have no issues recommending it (I've also used the Satori AMT, it is actually really good as well, but I believe this was designed by Mundorf). The speakers have an amazing, 3-dimensional soundstage, and very nice tonal accuracy. Curious which tweeter you think I should've used. As far as why I chose that Mundorf, mainly curiosity... I build a lot of speakers and I've heard the Mundorf in the past and very much enjoyed it but never used one, so I wanted to try it. And that specific one seemed to have the bandwidth I was after to cross to the 18WE.
Hi,
Thanks and good to know. I am looking forward to read you the day you will finish with the 18M as well. I am intrigued by this driver over the Rev 18W. It is in the midrange SS line while a little big with 7" for a mid. it has the titanium voice coil and foam gasket so it should be detailled.
my comment about planar is it is hard to cross with a classic round driver and at least I have not the skill to do so.
About AMT, I dunno and thanks for the inputs. I have read that also the yellow material quality is very important and many manufacterers cut the costs here while not Mundorf... I didn't tried them yet, they are a little pricey (delirious prices if you ask me twice) for what it is, my opinion only. If a speaker like the 18M I would be tempted to use a 1.3" unit above below 2000 hz but just theory. The Troels Gravsen NUW-17 is intriguing me a lot because the 18M and what he said subjectivly... Though there is a talk those days about the size of the mid unit between a logical 5" or 4" for midrange (12MU driver comes to mind despite the low efficienty as I do not like 4 ohms units) ... and bigger size 6" to 8" that roll off earlier for a proper tweeter to work with and anyway works above there pistonic range !
just a philosophy illustration about two different context with passive filter : Vivid Audio 4 ways with short operation range for the drivers and not big for proper pistonic behavior and the said NUW-17 with the revelator 18M working 200 hz to 2000 hz circa. The good efficienty of this unit as you noticed, is tempting as its middle price for my wallet... THD numbers (see HifiCompass) are good but not sota.
Thanks and good to know. I am looking forward to read you the day you will finish with the 18M as well. I am intrigued by this driver over the Rev 18W. It is in the midrange SS line while a little big with 7" for a mid. it has the titanium voice coil and foam gasket so it should be detailled.
my comment about planar is it is hard to cross with a classic round driver and at least I have not the skill to do so.
About AMT, I dunno and thanks for the inputs. I have read that also the yellow material quality is very important and many manufacterers cut the costs here while not Mundorf... I didn't tried them yet, they are a little pricey (delirious prices if you ask me twice) for what it is, my opinion only. If a speaker like the 18M I would be tempted to use a 1.3" unit above below 2000 hz but just theory. The Troels Gravsen NUW-17 is intriguing me a lot because the 18M and what he said subjectivly... Though there is a talk those days about the size of the mid unit between a logical 5" or 4" for midrange (12MU driver comes to mind despite the low efficienty as I do not like 4 ohms units) ... and bigger size 6" to 8" that roll off earlier for a proper tweeter to work with and anyway works above there pistonic range !
just a philosophy illustration about two different context with passive filter : Vivid Audio 4 ways with short operation range for the drivers and not big for proper pistonic behavior and the said NUW-17 with the revelator 18M working 200 hz to 2000 hz circa. The good efficienty of this unit as you noticed, is tempting as its middle price for my wallet... THD numbers (see HifiCompass) are good but not sota.
Not to get too far off topic, but I would debate a 4-way passive crossover is much more difficult to get right than the 3 way I did using the drivers I used, I actually have yet to hear a 4 way I would say I enjoyed.
This build did take me a long time to get right, and so far, I would agree with you that using an AMT or a ribbon can be more difficult to get right than using a dome tweeter might be... but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy them. More to your point, in this build the most difficult part for me was the tweeter, but it was actually because it was so laid-back sounding, while still incredibly revealing, that I was looking for that overly fake dynamic most tweeters offer (that admittedly I tend to enjoy)-the Mundorf doesn't do that, it's just a very natural sounding, while still being incredibly revealing, tweeter. Obviously I haven't used all the dome tweeters out there, but of all the dome tweeters I've used thus far, I don't know of one I think I might enjoy more than the Mundorf I did use, once I finally got it dialed in. And in the end, it was actually a fairly simple xover, no notch filters, just a pretty straight-forward 3rd order electrical network. (FTR, I'm not at all saying I don't enjoy dome tweeters, just that I really love that Mundorf)
And I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to use anything above a 5" for a midrange, but I tend to prefer a larger midrange. I've played enough that in my opinion, while beaming occurs at lower frequency the bigger you go in a midrange, the audible presence of beaming might not be as nasty is it's made out to be. Loudspeaker design is a game of compromises, pick and choose the one you enjoy listening to. I have the Ellipticor 18WE crossed to that Mundorf (3rd order) at 2.5khz, and it not only sounds spectacular, the build measures very flat on and off-axis. I would go so far as to say there is nothing in the upper midrange / lower treble I would want any different on this combination of drivers, I'm very happy with them.
FWIW, it did come down to the Mundorf vs the Ellipticor tweeter for me when I started the build. But I had heard the Mundorf before in a different build and enjoyed it, I had never heard the Ellipticor tweeter before, so the Mundorf was a safer bet for me in this build.