-the problem with a console is your listening axis in the treble relative to the drivers.
A typical coaxial 12" pro driver is going to have a lot of pressure loss off-axis for most listening positions (unless you are seated near the level of the console).
IMO, what you need is commonly referred to as a "ceiling speaker" - essentially a 12" car coaxial.
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Yup. It's not a coincidence.
Of course a 2" closed-back tweeter (cone or dome) in front of a woofer should be fairly NON-directional up to almost 7 kHz, which should "do it" for most listening positions.
I could envision an Eminence Beta 12aII with a centered (a'la car/ceiling speaker) SB Acoustics SB29RDNC-C000-4 (with an electrical Cauer filter around 1 kHz for the time delay and distortion reduction).
http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/SBAcoustics_SB29RDCN-C000-4-FR-0-15-30-offaxis.gif
http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/SBAcoustics_SB29RDCN-C000-4-FR-0-15-30-offaxis.gif
What's wrong with the original speakers?
Might sound pretty good with some better amplification and source, although I'm thinking they are a bit short on power handling.
Not sure what you want to hear when it's all done though...
Some of the 60s hi-fi stuff wasn't bad at all, with a focus on the midrange primarily, but decent sounding. We had open back cabinets with 12" Jensen full range drivers, powered by a Scott 222. Must have been pretty good, since most everything after sounded pretty dull until I got into diy.
Cool project btw.
Might sound pretty good with some better amplification and source, although I'm thinking they are a bit short on power handling.
Not sure what you want to hear when it's all done though...
Some of the 60s hi-fi stuff wasn't bad at all, with a focus on the midrange primarily, but decent sounding. We had open back cabinets with 12" Jensen full range drivers, powered by a Scott 222. Must have been pretty good, since most everything after sounded pretty dull until I got into diy.
Cool project btw.
Definitely worth it in this sort of configuration - it's very small (a key attribute), has a wide bandwidth (to a lower freq. for its size), an excellent off-axis response, good distortion (assuming a very steep crossover), and despite it's 4 ohm impedance - is still reasonably efficient.
SB29RDNC-C000-4 :: SB Acoustics
I was also looking at the Audio Nirvana full range offerings. However, with such limited xmax, I'm concerned with the amount of bass reproduction offered.
I could definitely do a pseudo ob style design, since the distances from the front to rear of the drivers is rather long and use one of the offering posted in this thread.
I could definitely do a pseudo ob style design, since the distances from the front to rear of the drivers is rather long and use one of the offering posted in this thread.
Just an update...
I stumbled into a set of old Infinity 1001-A that I figured I could try. The cabinets had been painted black due to watermarks, but the drivers had been rebuilt about 8 years ago, or so, professionally.
I paid $100 for them and just replicated the cabinet dimensions into the console. The 1001-A's are a bass reflex design, but due to being packed with polyfill along with the port tube having a wad in it as well, they are basically a sealed design.
Any way, I replaced the capacitor in the crossover and relocated the drivers over. I used the existing tweeter bracket from the console for one of the tweeters, (fortunately it fit perfectly), and located the second tweeter on the rear, upper corners of the cabinet, flush mounted. For now, I have a piece of cardboard attached to the back of the cabinet over each tweeter at an angle, that deflects the sound horizontally, outwards to help fill the room. I'll make a more permanent replacement in the future.
I am pretty impressed as to how the speakers perform, for such a simple design. I do prefer the tweeters turned down a notch on their L-pad, though. From there, I can tweak the sound with the EQ to really dial it in.
I'll have to get some pictures up probably by this weekend.
Two questions, though:
1) How would I figure out what new l-pad I would need to order if I wanted to replace them with new units?
2) Does any one know if the tweeters are supposed to be out-of-phase or in-phase with one another?
Thanks!
I stumbled into a set of old Infinity 1001-A that I figured I could try. The cabinets had been painted black due to watermarks, but the drivers had been rebuilt about 8 years ago, or so, professionally.
I paid $100 for them and just replicated the cabinet dimensions into the console. The 1001-A's are a bass reflex design, but due to being packed with polyfill along with the port tube having a wad in it as well, they are basically a sealed design.
Any way, I replaced the capacitor in the crossover and relocated the drivers over. I used the existing tweeter bracket from the console for one of the tweeters, (fortunately it fit perfectly), and located the second tweeter on the rear, upper corners of the cabinet, flush mounted. For now, I have a piece of cardboard attached to the back of the cabinet over each tweeter at an angle, that deflects the sound horizontally, outwards to help fill the room. I'll make a more permanent replacement in the future.
I am pretty impressed as to how the speakers perform, for such a simple design. I do prefer the tweeters turned down a notch on their L-pad, though. From there, I can tweak the sound with the EQ to really dial it in.
I'll have to get some pictures up probably by this weekend.
Two questions, though:
1) How would I figure out what new l-pad I would need to order if I wanted to replace them with new units?
2) Does any one know if the tweeters are supposed to be out-of-phase or in-phase with one another?
Thanks!
I used import CIARE from Italy, and have some NOS that might fit the bill. It is the CH250, if my memory serves. This is a 50 watt 12". I stocked it because it was popular in open baffle cabinets, in the aughts. This might be appropriate. There will not be a lot of bass, but the cabinet will not take a lot of bass. This cone has a wizzer on it. Also appropriate, in that as mentioned, a high quality coaxial might be wasting the HF at that listening position.
That is one great looking console. Fun project.
Let me know if this sounds appealing, I will let them go for a song.
That is one great looking console. Fun project.
Let me know if this sounds appealing, I will let them go for a song.
An excellent & low-cost driver for the 3" is the Peerless by Tymphany TC9FD18-08 3-1/2" Full Range. It has been used full range & for just higher frequencies for many projects here. Very smooth with low low distortion.
For the woofer, I'd consider the GRS 12SW. It's very inexpensive at $23 and will extend into the 30s easily. With a "Q" of .98, you wouldn't need any enclosure changes. I've used these sealed & they're value beasts.
I'd strive for a crossover at around 400Hz-500Hz. Both would perform well like that.
For the woofer, I'd consider the GRS 12SW. It's very inexpensive at $23 and will extend into the 30s easily. With a "Q" of .98, you wouldn't need any enclosure changes. I've used these sealed & they're value beasts.
I'd strive for a crossover at around 400Hz-500Hz. Both would perform well like that.
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