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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

NS1000 clone and or similar performing mid...
NS1000 clone and or similar performing mid...
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:17 AM   #21
Toaster is offline Toaster  United Kingdom
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I've had a very different experience with the Peerless 830870 recently, in the context of a pair of the smaller Munro Sonic Eggs, FWIW. Vocals are very well reproduced by the Munro amp/ speaker combination. That said, the raw drive unit is not very sensitive and a well-designed three way system using it would probably sound more like a big Spendor or Harbeth than an NS1000, I suspect. The obvious candidate for a dome mid is the ATC, but they are very expensive, and I've read that they will no longer be supplied to the DIY market. Still too expensive I expect, but a left-field possibility might be acquiring a pair of the cheapest KEF 'R' series second-hand to use the midrange coax (R300?) and combine the drivers in that with something like SEAS L26R0Ys. A low cost approximation would probably involve cone mids or compression drivers.
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Old 21st April 2017, 04:46 PM   #22
madisonears is offline madisonears  United States
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After my glowing endorsement, if anybody wants a very cheap pair or quad of used 830870 (I have the shielded version, which is identical to the 830870 in every respect with a metal can encircling the magnet), let me know. I have no plans to use them. All four are in good condition, with a modification to the mounting flange.

Peace,
Tom E
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Old 21st April 2017, 05:38 PM   #23
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toaster View Post
The obvious candidate for a dome mid is the ATC, but they are very expensive, and I've read that they will no longer be supplied to the DIY market.
Appears you are right: No more ATC domes after 31. 5.!!!

Leaves us with the Volt VM752 but that costs more than the ATC does/did.
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Old 21st April 2017, 06:18 PM   #24
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Originally Posted by eriksquires View Post
My favorite budget tweeters are the Vifa XT25 line. Same as the Scanspeak. They perform really really well, and better than some mid-range Be tweeters. Certainly better than used in some current French uber speakers.

Also I hear very good thing about the Discovery mid range drivers as well.

Best,


E
rahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ! Pfffffffffffffffffffffff ! Purely free words....

You aware of the most sold american speaker which used a french inversed dome ! And they didn't use Mundorf caps !

There are far more bad tweakers than bad drivers, you had the proof with Wilson Audio using the titane inverted Focal Speaker for years !

Last edited by Eldam; 21st April 2017 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 21st April 2017, 06:29 PM   #25
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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If market acceptance is a measure, the XT25 line is more widely accepted by more high-end manufacturers than any inverted dome tweeter.

Best,

E
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Old 21st April 2017, 08:55 PM   #26
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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wow, what a scientist proof ... all is in the feeling as I can see ! Bravo...

I would like to see more interresting input from you than to disgress like you do ! Or common, if so with talent please, try to introduce some humor !

More seriously I would like to see some inputs like what about a mid an tweeter dome patern vs for instance a conic concentric like we can see more and more in some ore and more cheap speakers like Elac (but which sound good because the designer don't need to putt an AMT to make the buzz !)

Last edited by Eldam; 21st April 2017 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:07 PM   #27
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Eldam,

This clearly got too personal. I used the same standards you did, and anything more will hijack this thread. If you want to start a thread about the XT25 elsewhere I'm sure myself and others will join you.

Best,

E
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:10 PM   #28
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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Inverted dome can never beat a nippled ring radiator. You know why.
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:34 PM   #29
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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@ Erik ! Common, was it not just personal here, free and not usefull for the demonstration : "Certainly better than used in some current French uber speakers."

But by the way I don't care, it is just to push you in your logic ; I myself like such logic often, and this is not personal : for instance : I like the novergian meat because it performs better than the crappy american beef food ! Is it bad because it's american or just because it is poor quality which is not only a question of country (good luck with the ARgentine beef of today !)

Which is true but not usefull for the conversation...BUT if you introduce some humor, style or whatever for the pleasure of our eyes !

Btw I don't like both inverted dome and ring radiator tweeters even with a good T-bones !

Of course I joke !

Last edited by Eldam; 21st April 2017 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:19 PM   #30
kgrlee is offline kgrlee
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Whatever you choose, make sure you modify one only NS1000 first and keep the other original for long term comparison.

Until you manage a 'mod' that actually sounds better than the original, make sure you can revert to the original
________________

We used to listen to loadsa competitors speakers. Most were unpacked, listened to and re-packed to be sent back the same day.

The NS1000 was one of only 2 speakers we kept for nearly 2 decades and might appear in our DBLTs

When CD appeared, it had a new lease of life. Without wobbly turntables, its powerful and well controlled bass was allowed to show its best face.

The NS1000 sealed box tuning .. near maximally flat 50Hz with a well designed 12" unit .. is a classic for tuneful bass that is known to do well in DBLTs. This was first demonstrated in AR3a but that wasn't as well balanced a speaker.
________________

NS1000 mid & treble performance wasn't as good as others but in a DBLT, it is the sum of the parts that is paramount and NS1000 does this very well.

You can certainly get better mid & treble but it would require the highest skills in matching drive units & xover to box. If you think just substituting a unit in the original will do it, you are very far from having these skills.

Don't assume fancy exotic materials give you better clarity & definition bla bla. NONE of these materials come out better in DBLTs. I say this having done some good speakers using supa dupa materials in my previous life.

Troel's xover looks good but ignores probably the biggest failing of the NS1000 xover. The coil cores on the lower xover have too small a diameter. But theoretical nit-picking has little correlation to DBLTs so I reserve judgement until someone carries one out properly on old & 'new' .. unlikely this Millenium

BTW, speakers which did will in DBLTs at the end of the last Millenium are likely to do well against the best today too .. even though technology has changed.
_____________________

My prejudices are heavily biased towards stuff that is relevant to performance in DBLTs .. but is there a more important criteria for choosing a speaker?

Oh! I forgot. Of course there is!!! $$$ and a "hand carved from solid Unobtainium by Virgins" label.

Last edited by kgrlee; 21st April 2017 at 10:25 PM.
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