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Old 23rd March 2017, 01:55 PM   #1
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Default B&C DE250 measurements in various horns

The B&C DE250-8 measured using a few popular horns. I used an iPhone generating test tones and an inexpensive mic. Nothing fancy and maybe not even accurate but the measurements reinforce my listening impressions. To my, ears the FaitalPRO and the Dayton horns sound the best. The FaitalPRO was my overall favorite.

FaitalPRO - Most natural. Great for long listening sessions.
Dayton - Similar to FaitalPRO but with a slight coloration some may prefer.
PVR - Large, airy sound. A bit flat sounding compared to the others.
SEOS - The whispiest sound of the bunch (or the sweetest sounding).

They all sound good tho. These are just my impressions in my apartment. I could live happily with any of them. Excellent, realistic sounding treble!

B&C DE250-8 1" Polyimide Horn Driver 8 Ohm 2/3-Bolt
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Old 24th March 2017, 02:53 PM   #2
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Also consider the horn's coverage pattern to match the room, and the horn's physical depth for time alignment to the midbass.

A horn with a narrow beamwidth might sound more detailed in some listening rooms than a wider beamwidth horn which generates more room interaction.

A wider horn beamwidth might be selected to cover multiple seats in a Home Theater.
A narrower horn beamwidth might be selected to cover couch seating in a small room.

For small time alignment differences with passive crossovers, a “quasi-optimal” BW3/BW3 design might improve the soundstage accuracy.

3rd order Butterworth Low Pass, -3dB @ Fx*0.87 (+)
3rd order Butterworth High Pass, -3dB @ Fx*1.15 (-)
Offset = 0.22*c/Fx
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Old 27th March 2017, 02:25 PM   #3
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Thanks for your comments LineSource! Having lived with horn tweeters the past year I don't know if I can ever go back to traditional domes or cones? They have a life and realism the others do not.
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Old 19th April 2017, 11:34 AM   #4
EarlK is offline EarlK  Canada
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Hi Godzilla,

This didn't actually go unnoticed, ( & I should have commented earlier ), I found your observations to be very interesting.

I like these response collages.

I see based on your comments in the current Google thread that you're continuing to try out other inexpensive solutions.

How does your latest Pyle/Selenium combo stack up to the 4 mentioned here ?

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Old 19th April 2017, 01:15 PM   #5
ZivkoF is offline ZivkoF  Slovenia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
The B&C DE250-8 measured using a few popular horns. I used an iPhone generating test tones and an inexpensive mic. Nothing fancy and maybe not even accurate but the measurements reinforce my listening impressions. To my, ears the FaitalPRO and the Dayton horns sound the best. The FaitalPRO was my overall favorite.

FaitalPRO - Most natural. Great for long listening sessions.
Dayton - Similar to FaitalPRO but with a slight coloration some may prefer.
PVR - Large, airy sound. A bit flat sounding compared to the others.
SEOS - The whispiest sound of the bunch (or the sweetest sounding).

They all sound good tho. These are just my impressions in my apartment. I could live happily with any of them. Excellent, realistic sounding treble!

B&C DE250-8 1" Polyimide Horn Driver 8 Ohm 2/3-Bolt
I have FaitalPRO LTH-102 with BMS 4540ND and love it! Just make it RED!
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:02 PM   #6
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Thanks for your kind words EarlK. I appreciate your help in getting me on the right track with this several months ago. My setup is not optimal but it's fun to experiment with the various components and I'm enjoying a lot of music in the process... often with my two teenage boys. Now I have a nice collection of waveguides and a handful of compression drivers.

The Pyle PDS442 was found in my garage. I bought 4 for the karate school where I trained years ago. The school's Pro Sound JBL speakers kept blowing their tweeters and we used these as replacements. No matter what we used, they blew. The instructor played music way too loud during the aerobics classes.

I expected the Pyle CD to sound bad. It didn't and I was pleasantly surprised! I started out using it with the JBL cloned Dayton waveguide, H6512, (which I'm not as crazy about as many others are). It sounded 'as good' as the Dayton DT250 - maybe better. When I screwed the Pyle into the Selenium HM25-25 I was pleasantly surprised at the great treble I was hearing (measurements above). Certainly not ruler flat but I've had this in my system for nearly a month without feeling the desire to swap it out. That's a great achievement for a tweeter, IMO.

The B&C in all of the above waveguides is better than the Pyle/Selenium combo. The sound is never fatiguing, smooth and very listenable with the B&C. The Pyle is rougher around the edges but surprisingly, being made from titanium, it is not fatiguing. I'd describe it as sounding 'thicker' than the B&C, 'less detailed, less liquid and less extended'... but I wouldn't call it harsh. The B&C is better. The real comparison is between the Pyle and the Dayton - which are also similar but different. The differences are small because I think the waveguide colors the sound the way it wants regardless of CD being used but the CD determines the final refinement of the sound - if that makes sense.

Sorry for the long response, but I want to make one more observation. In my search to find a CD that works down to approximately 1600Hz, I noticed the CDs with voice coils of 1.75" are generally rated to go lower in frequency than CDs with smaller voice coils. The B&C, Pyle and Dayton all share this specification. I see the Peerless CD has a voice coil diameter of 1.4".

PS. The FaitalPRO LTH-102 is certainly a beautiful waveguide in red or stock black. My personal favorites are the FaitalPRO, the Selenium (also aluminum), the PRV and sometimes the Dayton H812 - tho I have not heard many others that look like nice options.

Last edited by Godzilla; 19th April 2017 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:58 PM   #7
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Pyle PDS442 vs Dayton DT250 in Selenium waveguide. Both good options on the cheap for good treble down to 1600Hz. I use them with the Eminence Lil' Buddy on open baffle.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:59 PM   #8
EarlK is offline EarlK  Canada
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Thanks for your thoughts and there's definitely no need to apologize for going into depth about your impressions ( I very much enjoy reading them ).

RE; voice-coil size .
- Yes, it's usually over-looked ( for some reason ) that even in a compression driver that size matters ( & it usually shows in the outer margins of the drivers response ) .
- Nobody would think twice if the conversation was about a 12" & 18" woofer ( & which had the better mid response or better low-end capability ).

I'd like to hear your opinions about the Eminence H290B horn ( if you ever get the inkling to buy one or 2 ).

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Old 19th April 2017, 03:19 PM   #9
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>>> I'd like to hear your opinions about the Eminence H290B horn...

Maybe I'll add it to my next PE purchase. It's very similar in size to the Selenium HM25-25. Do you think the curve of the waveguide will make much difference?
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:52 PM   #10
EarlK is offline EarlK  Canada
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Hi ,

The Eminence has somewhat wider polars than the Selenium ( which according to the spec. sheet narrows quite a lot up in the HF > as does that Dayton > as will any Tractrix based horn ).

The H290x ( series of horns ) can represent a nice compromise ( for some ) between the full blown waveguides ( like the PRV & SEOS ) and the older radials .

FYI, I happen to like the older radials ( as long as they don't have too deep an entry throat ).
- Some of the first radials made ( by W.E. in the 1940's ) were essentially, "throatless" .
- I listen to an Emilar H500 ( driven by an Altec 288-8K attached by an adapter, which lengthens the throat entry ).
- I've never measured it's polars ( since it is NLA afterall why promote it), but they are certainly wide enough for my listening .

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